Starter Disengages after 2 seconds

[wired1000]

Hi all,

Have a weird starter issue... Well, maybe it's not weird?

Anyway, the starter is about 6 months old. It's an original-type starter built by Ohio Generator, apparently a beefed-up model of the original (direct-drive, 24V).

Over the winter it started doing this thing where I'll try to start the truck, it'll turn over for a second or two, then it sounds like one cylinder fires (one time), the solenoid pops back but the engine doesn't take, and the starter goes "whiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz".

I can then try again. Sometimes it takes a couple times for the engine to start. Other times, it'll crank over for a few seconds without this issue and then the engine will fire up.

Now that it's no longer cold, I figure it doesn't have an excuse to be acting this way and I better find out what's up before I have to replace something.

I have some hypotheses...

1) Starter was not installed properly using new bolts, so they've stretched a bit and now it isn't aligned correctly anymore. I know the place that installed it didn't hook up the support bracket, and I've been unable to get it to fit properly.

2) Starter has chewed a couple teeth off the flywheel, so it will crank until it gets to a missing tooth and then just spin

3) There is some kind of solenoid issue happening.

SO, my plan is to first replace the bolts with ones that are the correct size (I'm thinking I'll just pull out one, replace it, then do the other...)

Also, I need to pull the dust cover off and check the flywheel. I had looked at it last fall to make sure the bolts were tight (they were) and that it was in good condition (it was). I'm sort of afraid to look, but I guess I'd better.


Any other ideas? Anybody else experienced this???

 

[Matt65]

My truck has done this before. However, it is very rare. The single cylinder fire is almost like a cough or hick-up then whiirrrrrrrr as starter spools down.

Based on what you have stated, I would want to test the GP system (test that each plug is good /heating) and confirm that no air is entering the fuel system, return valve, leaking IP etc. Keep in mind you can have air entering the system without leaking fuel.

Your path forward sounds very good. Be sure to measure your gear clearances between the Flexplate and Starter in several locations around the flexplate. Based on measurements you may find that even with the "No Shim" stamped starter, a shim will be needed to achieve correct gear engagement. I added a half outer shim to the outer (closer to Passenger door) starter bolt to move the starter gear closer. Adding shim to the inside, or both bolts will move the starter gear awat. Use the least amount of thickness possible. Be aware that in rare cases the crank itself could be walking, or the flexplate could be bent. Confirm the correct starter brace, clean mating surfaces, use brake cleaner in the starter bolt threads, and GM starter bolts @ correct Tq. Don't use locktite. Reconfirm Tq monthly at minimum until you see that you not losing bolt Tq vs time.

The alignment for these engines is very important because of the high compression, and a direct drive starter. The mfg variation from one engine/starter/flex plate combination to another is too great.

 

[edpdx]

Starter shim...Or maybe the starter nose cone needs tweaking so that the starter sits completely flush. Other threads discuss this.

 

[wayne pick]

Hea wired1000, Sounds like the bendix is disengaging. The fastest way to test this is to remove the inspection cover, crawl under the truck and have someone start the truck in park and with the parking brake fully mashed to the floor, Dangerous? yea, I've done it before. A mirror on a broomstick is probably a better way to go. Watch the bendix gear and make sure it ingages the flexplate fully. If it engages and snaps back it is probably a bad solinoid or loose wire connection. I know you said Ohio Generator. New or rebuilt? China rebuild? My friends kid put a China rebuild on his Duramax witthout bench testing it first, It was no good, another one bench tested this time, No good. Finnaly went to GM and got the right one, not to say you have to do that, just be wary of where you get rebuilt parts from. Good luck. WCP. Footnote, If you do the crawl under, jack the rear axle off the ground and place jackstands under the axle, not just a floor jack under the dif. Don't crawl under unless you have done the doghead mod, rather see you use the mirror to inspect, it's safer.

 

[jj]

Many times, that brief starter engagement, followed by the "ZINNNNNGGGG" sound is indeed the drive gear failing. The Bendix, that is. If you yank the starter out and try to turn the little gear, it should not turn in one direction at all, and should turn very stiffly in the other direction. If it spins loosely, it should be replaced. I just had this happen to my little Chebbie daily driver. I spun the drive gear and it made like a perpetual motion machine. It may still be spinning now, on it's way back to the rebuilding place, for all i know. A lot of work to get it out, but not too expensive to fix.

 

[wired1000]

So, I haven't had much time to work on this until this weekend. Luckily, this week I stopped at a starter/alternator rebuild shop, and found that they actually HAD a rebuilt gear-reduction starter in stock! So I picked that up, and then hardened my nerves to the impending disaster I foresaw...

Turns out there are a few nicked teeth on my flywheel, but on the whole it wasn't bad. That said, I fully expected that the problems would persist once I replaced the starter. But I went ahead and did it anyway. Had picked up some new bolts (Delco) from the Chevy dealer earlier in the week, as I'm told they stretch and should not be re-used. Interestingly, the bolts I removed from the truck looked a lot more robust than the new ones. The new ones I needed to put flat washers on them, as their heads were kinda wimpy looking. The old ones had these big fat heads looking like they had an integrated washer... if that makes any sense.

Anyway, wasn't a big deal to get the old one out and the new one back in. Fired her up and she's starting like a new truck!

Since I went from a Direct-Drive to a Gear Reduction, I'll have to switch out the bracket. It's been ordered, so I'll try to take it easy on the truck till I get that one put in. Better yet, the guy at Ohio Generator who'd built my direct-drive starter told me if I send it back to him, he'll fix whatever's wrong with it. Excellent!

 

[wallew]

one question

is the flex plate CRACKED? unfortunately the only way to check it is to physically remove it and twist it. any crack become immediately apparent. ask me why I know this...

hopefully your starter issues have been resolved... always a good feeling for sure

 

[wired1000]

Well, if that's the only way to check, then I have to say "I don't know". I did inspect it as thoroughly as I could, and made sure the bolts were tight. As I said, there are some teeth on there which I wish weren't so worn-down, so a new flex plate is in the future. It looks like a pretty hearty job, which I'm not sure I'm ready to tackle on my own. Was thinking of swapping in a TH700R4, so maybe that would be the time to replace it.

 

[wired1000]

. I know you said Ohio Generator. New or rebuilt? China rebuild?.

Went with Ohio Generator because it was built (new) in USA with USA parts. Tom stood behind his product and said similar things to what people on SS have said may be the issue. Gonna ship the starter back to him for it to be fixed. Hopefully it's just the bendix, as you say.

 

[wayne pick]

wired, Why do you want to swap to a 700r4? Is that swap for your 1009? I may be mistaken, but I think you have 3.73 gears in the 1009. An OD trans will constantly be shifting from drive to overdrive and back again with those rear end gears. You will have a higher top end, speed wise, but I don't think you would want to drive that fast in one of these trucks. It is a popular swap for the pickups, the 1010 and 1031 as they have 4.56 gears, the swap allows for highway speeds with these trucks by lowering the engines RPM. your better off swaping your TH400 for a HD rebuild. I did a HD rebuild to my 700r4 and it was costly. The TH400 is just a more rugged trans. Probably the best GM ever built.

 

[wired1000]

OK, I have my gear reduction starter bracket. How does this thing hook up? It looks completely different than the original (direct drive) bracket. Does anyone have a pic?

 

[M1008driver]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKsfI_MgzJA[/media]

You really can't mess this up. The only thing different is the shape of the bracket.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/692875-post16.html

 

[wired1000]

Thanks!

should have time to get that hooked up today. Will advise.