Yes The deuce will fit on a 16ft backhoe trailer

[Shawn MacAnanny]

I was just messing around today getting some of my equipment cleaned up and ready for the summer and wanted to see if the deuce would fit on my backhoe trailer just incase i ever had to go retreive it. It does. Don't mind the flat tire, that's actually why i had the trailer out to check it over, guess i should have checked it over before loading it. no harm done though.

I only pulled it a mile or so to my parents, they arent very heavy. That trucks a 2001 Silverado, duramax/allison. It does have 6500lb payload springs in the rear and it only looks like its squatting because i have the torsion bars cranked all the way up to level it out when im not towing things. Otherwise the rear is way in the air.

The trailer is rated at 22,000lb, 16ft flat deck with 4ft beaver tail. The wheels just barely fit before the slope.

 

[Stalwart]

Just don't get caught by "Officer Friendless", he'll undoubtedly sell you a nice and EXPENSIVE piece of paper. Just because the springs are rated for that load doesn't mean the axle is and you look to be WAY beyond the factory ratings. Please be careful!

It does look cool with a Deuce behind it.

 

[gimpyrobb]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/20881-caption-contest.html

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Well The axle in the 2500s is identical to the 3500s. Every Duamax runs the AAM 1150 rear axle which is rated to 10,900 Lbs. The Rear axle weight rating was limited from the factory to 6200lbs or so because of the rims and tires. The load rating on my tires in 4200lbs each as singles, rims 4600lb, and in DE you can tag above the manufaturers GVWR so i have that truck tagged at 12,000lb, Weighs 7200lbs empty and i doubt im seeing anywhere near 5,000lb tounge weight. I only added the springs to stiffen it up when towing large trailers like this. Ive towed many trailers over 20k with this truck. I also welded 1/4" 2x2 angle in the rear C channel as well to reinforce the frame and the htich is rated at 18,000lb limited by the factory C channel frame which was reinforced. I do carry a Class A and the vehicle is used on for personal use so no DOT number is necessary for it. I do try to exercise some caution before blatently endangering fellow motorists

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Rob that trailer sure doesnt look like it has much more than a 12,000lb capacity although as stripped as that deuce is it may not weight that much with the trailer. I like how both people are sitting next to the tounge of the trailer, pretty much the last place you should be when loading a trailer should it decide to detach itself and pin you against your truck.

 

[Stalwart]

I have the Dana/Spicer Model S110 under my F450 with an axle rating of 14,700 from Dana but I wouldn't even think of that kind of load behind it, not in that fashion any way. Don't get me wrong, I tow heavy but I use a 30,000 rated gooseneck hitch to tow that kind of load. Are you using some sort of weight distribution system? The GM 2500HD series are fine trucks but that load is getting a bit on the crazy side. My gosh man, the brakes on that truck aren't intended for that kind of load.

I set my brake gain so the trailer (hyd. disc) stops itself and the truck stops itself plus the 5-6000 on the pin. Even with the MASSIVE brakes on the S110 (they had to use STUPID 19.5" wheels to clear) the stopping power is very good but could be easily overwhelmed if I had to stop much of the trailer too. I assume you are using electric drum brakes, not known for good stopping power, so the truck takes more of the load.

PLEASE be VERY careful! We like our SS members alive and well.

 

[porkysplace]

With that load on the 2500 you won't need a jack to change the front tires . But i doubt it will steer with water on the road.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

It's really not that heavy of a load, that truck is only 13k or so, ive had a case 580 sized backhoe behind the truck before and it was fine, towed it about 170miles. They are electric drum brakes, with a controller made for 5 braking axles. 6 drums, all adjusted and working fine, i can lock the front to axles up with my bobcat on the trailer so they definately work well. I usually manually controll the controller when coming to a stop anyway as im not a fan of how any of the electric controllers time and apply. I plan on re-wiring the brakes direct instead of in series so the rear axle gets full voltage. The triple axles really keep alot of the weight on the trailer.

If i did lose trailer brakes it would be hard to stop but not impossible, The allison is very good at grade braking and helps immensly when slowing heavy loads. I dont plan on ever towing the deuce, but if it were to break down i wouldnt hesitate throwing it up on this trailer to get it home. Ive lost trailer brakes on a dump trailer we had several times and it was loaded every bit of 20k. The truck didnt like it, but it brought the load to a stop safely every time. I do run drilled/slotted rotors and ceramic pads which i have yet to warp, and have never glazed over so they seem to dissapate heat will. The brakes arent all that great but they work. I did replace every line with stainless lines because i lost a line towing a trailer and for whatever reason there was no split system or it didnt function. As far as it being a 2500 vs a 3500 they are the same frame and axle and ive made the necessary improves to the suspension, wheels and tires to ensure the added load is tollerable. dual wheels add some stability and safety should i lose a tire but as far braking traction with the load thats on the rear axle i doubt it would ever lock up the rear wheels.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

That's also a very nice truck / trailer setup Stalwart. Is that your personal setup? I couldnt imagine buying a new truck now, especially an F450 they are $70k+.

 

[Goose2448]

I think you are pushing it with that truck, but in an emergency it would pull through. I have a 2000 F550 with the S135 rear and Dana 70 up front. Truck is only rated at 17500 GVW, truck weighs about 16K alone, but have it tagged at 19K. I bet we could do about 36K with it no problem with the right trailer. I just dont have a gooseneck in my truck. The truck we use at work to pull the 10 ton goosenecks is a 2006 Chevy 3500 flat bed dually. You cant even feel the trailer behind it when its loaded. I always thought my C20 could do anything, but once I started driving the 550, I dont want to tow with anything smaller. The wheel base helps stable everything, and the massive weight of the truck will stop most trailers I tow. I have only towed about a 8K trailer with the truck, as its non commercial, but even that was no problem for it. Being able to pick what gear helps a lot. My brakes are pretty good, but I always down shift so I have never really used them for a lot of the load. If I were gonna tow something that big, I would want the 3500. 15K is about it for a 2500. Always have more than you need.

 

[porkysplace]

It's really not that heavy of a load, that truck is only 13k or so, ive had a case 580 sized backhoe behind the truck before and it was fine, towed it about 170miles. They are electric drum brakes, with a controller made for 5 braking axles. 6 drums, all adjusted and working fine, i can lock the front to axles up with my bobcat on the trailer so they definately work well. I usually manually controll the controller when coming to a stop anyway as im not a fan of how any of the electric controllers time and apply. I plan on re-wiring the brakes direct instead of in series so the rear axle gets full voltage. The triple axles really keep alot of the weight on the trailer.

Either way you load the Deuce it's way to tongue heavy for that truck . As for the Case 580 it depends on which model our 580 ck weighs #9000 , our 580 Super K ( 2 wheel drive extenda-hoe weighs around #14,000 . The added bracing on the 2500 will just make the frame crack over time , where the bracing ends .

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

It was an old oliver backhoe, was supposed to weigh around 10k when i went to pick it up, i guessed it somewhere around 12k though from everything ive moved with the truck. so i probably was only pulling 14k total (i had brought a smaller trailer) but it was absolutely fine at highway speeds. I dont think the deuce was too heavy when i backed it on. I have the front leveled with the torsion bars so the back is level with no load, this is not how most trucks are, they are a good 4-6 inches high in the back. I guess it will just crack over time then, i rarely move anything heavy any more, i actually bought the deuce to replace this truck for the 1 or 2 heavy things i may move a year. i just couldnt justify spending $60k on a new truck that i wont even put 200 towing miles on a year.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Clam down kiddys, he said he doesn't tow the deuce, or plan to tow the deuce. It is just something he looked into. He sounds safer than some of the idiots with bigger equipment.

 

[Stalwart]

That's also a very nice truck / trailer setup Stalwart. Is that your personal setup? I couldnt imagine buying a new truck now, especially an F450 they are $70k+.

Thanks Shawn, it is my personal daily driver that does double duty hauling our armored green things. It's 5 years old now (born May 2007) with 75,000 on it. I can't replace it now as Ford has neutered them for model year '11+. To save weight, they downgraded both axles amongst other things. So even if I wanted to spend the money, I can't replace it unless I buy either a cab and chassis F550 or a MUCH bigger truck of another brand. I haven't checked out the new prices but spending $55K (invoice +$500) on a then loaded truck was bad enough. I'll just wear it out and then pray for a solution. Believe it or not, you can order an F350 with a bigger payload than an F450, STUPID Dana 80 rear axle!!!!!

I forgot that you lived in an area with a different topography. Out here on the Left Coast, especially the PNW the terrain makes for some serious pulling and stopping. Your experiences may vary. I remember my years in Florida during may college years, the steepest hills were the freeway overpasses, you could darn near Fred Flinstone a truck there.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Oh yeah i didnt even think to mention i live in DE. There isnt a single hill or bridge with a grade above maybe 2% within a 90 miles radius haha. I wouldnt dare tow anything like that up and down some of the grades ive been through in pa and va. I did bring a 12k backhoe home through some steep grades but that was only about 5 miles of the trip until i got on I95. I forgot to take a height measurement on my trailer of the deuce to see if i could even haul it home if i needed to. Ill have to remember to do that.

Only 75k miles? That' practically brand new man. They did away with the 450? I didnt know that. I thought my friend was looking at one last year when he bought his 350, maybe it was a 550 though. His new 350 was $67k though said they wouldnt finance the 550 for him because it was considered a commercial truck and didnt have the same financing options. We used to have a 450 and a 550 at my old job and would tow our bobcat 42 excavater with it on our bumper pull tandem axle with electric brakes. The 450 was an older 7.3L, the 550 a newer 6.0l, both towed it well but that's a pretty scary thought to have electric drum brakes on that trailer too. 16.5k machine, trailer was probably 8k by itself. We usually pulled it with an F800 dump but somedays we needed the dump truck elseware.

 

[Stalwart]

They didn't kill the F450, they just took a HUGE step backwards and put F350 axles under it. They took a truck that had no peer for its size and made it an overweight F350 (the 450 uses much heavier frame and other components).

Heck, my driveway is WAY more than a 10% grade

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Oh i see. i remember asking him if it had 10 lug axles, he told me no they didnt use them anymore. that makes sense now. Haha my driveway is 1/4 mile gravel rd. 102 acres around here of nothing but completely flat farm land pretty much at sea level.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

Shawn,
So, in your state there is no problem exceeding the GCVWR of a vehicle.
Here in GA if you exceed the ratings (GVW or GCVW) you are considered as overloaded and then given a nice award for that ($$$). (Not to mention being possibly sidelined till the weight is corrected.)

So why are electric drum brakes a problem?

 

[Bill W]

OK
You have a 20' trailer ( 16 + 4 )
I have a 16' ( 14 + 2 ) and thought no way when I read your header.
Heck, my 37 barely fit on my 16'

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

Shawn,
So, in your state there is no problem exceeding the GCVWR of a vehicle.
Here in GA if you exceed the ratings (GVW or GCVW) you are considered as overloaded and then given a nice award for that ($$$). (Not to mention being possibly sidelined till the weight is corrected.)

So why are electric drum brakes a problem?

Gross combined weight is gvwr of truck(9200), plus gvwr of trailer(22,000). I can tag my truck over the mgvwr so its at 12,000 so technically i am tagged for 34,000lb gcvwr. This is only for personal use, if it were for a busniess i would have much larger truck/trailer with air brakes on the trailer. I only move 1 or two big thigns a year, never very far. I only loaded the deuce up to see if it would fit.

I used to tow a T300 or T190 on a 20ft trailer every day with this truck. That alone was anywhere from 10,000lb-14,000lb depending on what attachments i brought with me for the jobs. Never had an issue. This really wouldnt be astronomically heavier.

It would fit on a 16ft trailer as thats as far as my deck is flat, parking it on the beaver tail would actually lower the cab for added clearence if you left it parked on the beaver tail. Would probably distrubute weight a little better too. I consider it a 16ft trailer as the beaver tail us supposed to be used only for securing the boom or attachments. So yeah it guess it is a 20ft trailer but the wheelbase does fit on a 16ft flat deck.