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M 816 Crane cable length?

zebedee

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Ran out the boom and lowered the hook yesterday (for the first time), hook set up for 1:2 reduction not using second boom wheel and cable terminating at boom not hook - this is how I got it....

However, when the hook is lowered to the ground, there is only 8-9 wraps left on the drum. Single layer. So - if I was to set up the hook with a 1:3 reduction - both jib wheels and cable terminating at the hook, the hook would not get to the ground before I ran out of cable......

This seems awfully short considering the possibility of lifting (recovery) from off a bridge or a deep embankment.

Is there a spec on cable length and should the drum run to a second layer or more???

Thanks. Howard
 

73m819

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A full single layer, the crane is not designed to pick below ground level, most likely a lift requiring a 3 part line will not be used stretched out all the way. According to the 20p, the STANDARD m816 cable reeving is 2 part.

NEVER NEVER run ALL the cable off the drum, ALWAYS leave at least 3 wraps

in the -10, page 2-164 there is the load chart, it talks about 2 & 3 part line

To get MORE below ground level working area, lower the boom down, suck it in, or both

BE CAREFUL doing HEAVY lifts stretched out, you can very easy end up with a bent outer section.
 
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m816

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123 Mack has it nailed. I would like to remind everyone this is Memorial Day weekend. Parades and Salutes to Veterans who no longer answer the call. May they rest in peace.
 

zebedee

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A full single layer, ..................
............. the STANDARD m816 cable reeving is 2 part.

I realised later today that the drum was grooved to only take 1 layer, not like commercial truck mounted cranes which have a smooth drum and many layers, therefore it is QED that if the drum is full, then you have all the cable that you are 'sposed to have.

73m819;1140163 said:
NEVER NEVER run ALL the cable off the drum, ALWAYS leave at least 3 wraps
Absolutely. I have been winching for over 30 years so that one is good to go - though great point to make for noobs. I plan on running out the cable again and when I'm at only three wraps, I will paint in bright red, the first 6' of cable that hangs from the supply side of the end of the boom - that should be ample warning to stop paying out cable. May also do this for the front winch as seen from the drivers seat.

Thanks again for the info/advice.
 

73m819

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I realised later today that the drum was grooved to only take 1 layer, not like commercial truck mounted cranes which have a smooth drum and many layers, therefore it is QED that if the drum is full, then you have all the cable that you are 'sposed to have.

Thanks again for the info/advice.
A lot of cranes will have a grooved drum (lagging of the correct cable size) to help set the first lay, then the other lays set in the first lay, helps to keep things nice and tight
 

Csm Davis

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Okay having a problem with this same cable, what would cause it to push slack through all of the spool to the attached end? Keeping more than half of the wraps on the winch and after three or four lifts it has enough to make a loop in the cable? Have respooled it many times now with a light load on it.
 

73m819

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Okay having a problem with this same cable, what would cause it to push slack through all of the spool to the attached end? Keeping more than half of the wraps on the winch and after three or four lifts it has enough to make a loop in the cable? Have respooled it many times now with a light load on it.
BAD boom or hook block sheave, not turning, either froze, bent, something wedged against it, old strand of cable wraped around shaft
 
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m816

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Okay having a problem with this same cable, what would cause it to push slack through all of the spool to the attached end? Keeping more than half of the wraps on the winch and after three or four lifts it has enough to make a loop in the cable? Have respooled it many times now with a light load on it.
Sounds like the grease is old and dried out. It makes it very stick. Time to run out your cable and really clean all the cable as well as the spool and sheaves . regrease every thing and run it back and forth a few times. That should clear everything up
 

Csm Davis

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BAD boom or hook block sheave, not turning, either froze, bent, something wedged against it, old strand of cable wraped around shaft
All the rolling points move easily with maybe the exception of the two spring loaded rollers on the drum, I haven't found a easy way to check them but they do roll and have been greased, but they are high on my suspect list.

Sounds like the grease is old and dried out. It makes it very stick. Time to run out your cable and really clean all the cable as well as the spool and sheaves . regrease every thing and run it back and forth a few times. That should clear everything up
Cable is indeed in need probably needs to be replaced. Now you say clean the cable, how and what to use? Will be oiling it for sure.
 

Welder Sam

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I see several referances to mineral spirits and brush. For tight, hard to reach places maybe brake or carb cleaner? Some penetrating oils have cleaning properties as well as lube. Not saying this is propper but its food for thought

When i worked on a well rig, we used whatever was handy. Gas or diesel usually
 

m816

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We do it the old fashioned way, Run the cable out and using a wire brush and some mineral spirits give the cable a good cleaning . Make an effort to get all the old grease off. Then have soldier #2 slowly real the cable back in while holding a big handfull of grease in a rag, and wipe it on the cable as it reals in. Use leather gloves to protect your hands and don't get close to anything that can drag your hands into the sheaves or block or the drum. You will have to refill the greased rag several times. Keep beer on ice until you finish the job ( Safety First):beer:
 

73m819

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I was working on this post when the SITE went down, took me so long to build it, i need to post it

Hate to say it but GREASE only lubes the OUTSIDE of the wire rope (cable), to thick to get into the inside, On a fiber core wire rope (which the mil. cable is), you need the core saturated, other wise the wire rope fiber core WILL pick up moisture, ROT the core AND rust the wire rope from the inside out, making a VERY dangerous situation, you can tell when a fiber core wire rope is lubed correctly is when you put a good load on it and as the wire contracts with the load a bit of lube is squeezed out. Fiber core wire rope takes a lot more care then a steel core.

Steel core STILL needs the insides lubed so when the wires and strands move, the ware is GREATLY reduced, a dry steel core cable will die from the core working on it self and the surrounding strands, greatly reducing strength.
The wire that makes up good wire rope is file hard, so dry wire rubbing on each other is like two files rubbing on each other (why shackles are softer then the cable, so the shackle wares not the cable)

Ues a good penetrating cable, drive chain lube like "LUGRIPLATE Chain and Cable Fluid Penetrating Oil", if you can, lube the cable (wire rope) as it goes over a sheave, this opens the cable a bit. helping to get the lube IN the cable, on areas where you can't do this, spray real slow so it will soak in.

On the outside of the cable just use a rag with diesel to wipe things down just a head of where you are lubing the cable, this is just to get any dirt off the cable, help with surface rust. the wipe down can be done on winch cables that get in the dirt each time it is used, with the CABLE lube being done depending on the amount of use, being used every day with a good load then a once a month lube, time your services from that but at least 3 to 4 months, maybe stretch to 6 months for steel core, fiber core needs twice the service that the steel core needs because once the core starts to dry, moisture starts to get in then rot and rust.

On the crane hoist, again used everyday, lube once a month but does not need a dirt ripe like a winch cable, just now and then, just a bit of use, I would say every three months for fiber core, up to 6 for steel core.

DO NOT PAINT your cable, this prevents lube from getting onto the cable AND masks some defects in the outer wires, also holds moisture in.

Remember a happy cable (wire rope) will not hurt you, a UNHAPPY one will try to KILL you. Look at your cable, bend it so it open look in the center, put it to your ear as you bend it, you CAN here if it is dry .

I think that the first crane that I ran was a stiff leg on top of the GREAT PERAMID, things have gotten a bit better since then, better equipment, better cable and care, GREASE on cable is a thing of the past, that was standard back in the 50s to early 70s, heck when I started pig fat was the standard. The military calls for 10 or 30 wt because it is in the supply chain instead of cable lube, they can afford cables, and as a side note NEVER NEVER use used motor oil, the acids do NOT make a healthy cable.
 
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swiss

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Cable and Chain Lube Recommendation

Here is the Napa Cable and Chain lubrication that I use. It was on sale last week and you can purchase for under $4.00 a can.

NAPA AUTO PARTS
 

73m819

Rock = older than dirt , GA. MAFIA , Dirty
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Would a graphite lube be good if not better because it doesn't hold dirt to the cable?
Out side, ye, in side no, the fiber core can not be saturated and will draw/hold MOISTURE then rust/deteriorate cable from the in side

Outside cable lube is more of a house keeping thing, the inside lube is the life of the cable and other lives as well.
 
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