Gasoline with 10% Ethanol

[plym49]

All of the gasoline I come across includes 10% ethanol.

Ethanol absorbs water quite well and water is not so good for a multifuel engine.

Does the ethanol in gas help, hurt or does it not matter?


- On the 'hurt' side, perhaps it can absorb enough water to make a multifuel not quite as happy.

- On the 'help' side, perhaps adding some gasoline to your tank will help absorb any water sitting on the bottom.

- Or, is this the big so what, as 10% ethanol is just not enough to matter?

What say ye?

 

[Flyingvan911]

I think it mainly used to thin it out a little so you get a little less gas for the same price. The ethanol is bad for rubber seals in older vehicles. New cars have better rubber that resists the enthanol.

Gasoline should only be burned if you have to for a short time. Gasoline doesn't have the power that diesel has and will damage the multifuel in the long run. Diesel is our friend.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Ethanol is horrible for EVERYTHING, thats all there is to it.

 

[rtk]

ethanol

Ethanol is c_ _ p , it's NOT good for any engine , killer on any rubber fuel parts . Wait ,you live in NY , the ethanol percent is supposed to GO UP to 15% , you can still find non ethanol gas but you have to search it out . NANNY STATE , NANNY COUNTRY . I read just recently that all the NON ethanol gas is going to CHINA to pay down our DEBT , go figure RTK

 

[ryan77]

Ethanol is horrible for EVERYTHING, thats all there is to it.

Not the farmers growing the corn!!!

 

[wdbtchr]

I can't find gas without alcohol nearby so I wash mine with water before I use it in my tractors or small engines.

You might have a source near check:Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

 

[panshark]

so, what would we get at the pump if there would happen to be a severe drought, and a consequent severe shortage of ethanol-producing corn? 10% sunshine?

 

[Speedwoble]

To the OP: I would not run E10 for longer periods, the lubricity is simply not there.

so, what would we get at the pump if there would happen to be a severe drought, and a consequent severe shortage of ethanol-producing corn? 10% sunshine?

No, you pay more for gasoline. You know, the stuff that can only be pumped out of the ground once. Corn can grow another crop next year. Ethanol is holding gas prices down by around $0.20 if I recall the last study correctly. [Edit: found the study http://www.card.iastate.edu/publications/DBS/PDFFiles/08wp467.pdf]

Listen, I worked in the ethanol industry, so call me biased, but I have seen the production. I did some work with material compatibility. The stuff is not even 10% as bad as people make it out to be. Mostly it is being used as a scapegoat.

All of the small engine guys were doing carb rebuilds long before E10. It is just easier to blame the carb rebuild on ethanol rather than the customer letting it sit all winter with fuel in the tank or the customer buying the $99 lawnmower from the discount store. Blaming the customer does not generate repeat business.

Typically problems with ethanol can be traced to poor transport and storage before the customer buys it. The amount of water it will absorb out of the air is very small. You can leave a jar out open and it will evaporate before it fills the jar with water.

Fun story: I had a lawnmower with some bubbles of water in the bottom of the tank which i didn't want to get sucked into the engine because it would stall it. I grabbed my bottle of 100% pure ethanol, poured in about 2 tablespoons and watched the water dissolve into the gasoline. In gasoline vehicles, ethanol makes water a non-issue as it allows the water to be dissolved into the gasoline and burnt. If you didn't have the ethanol, the water could freeze or stall the engine. Remember why people used to add Heet?

 

[papabear]

so, what would we get at the pump if there would happen to be a severe drought, and a consequent severe shortage of ethanol-producing corn? 10% sunshine?

I think we will find that answer this year or next. Been watching on the news that severe drought is causing massive loss of corn and other crops.

 

[Ford Mechanic]

One major problem with the ethanol added gas is that if you get any water in it, it causes the ethanol to seporate from the gas. The ethanol then absorbs the water and sinks to the bottom. After seperating the whole mixture is bad. you would think that you could then use the gas left on top, but the gas left is a very low octane and will make a gas engine run very rough.

I asked the same kind of question yesterday to the folks who were cutting thier WMO fuel with gas before seporating.

EDIT WRONG INFO SORRY
Don't belive me? Take a 100ml beaker fill with 90ml of 10%ethanol fuel and 10 ml of h2o stir and let sit a hour or 2 then see what seporates.


Correct info striaght from Ford Tech Hotline
Michael,
To check for E85 content, using a clear bottle fill it halfway with water, mark the line, add the same amount of fuel from the vehicle, mix together, and allow to separate. The ethanol will combine with the water increasing the water level. A 10% rise is normal gasoline, more than that is an E85 mix. If this is the case, recommend draining the fuel tank completely, dry it out, add known good fuel, and retest.

And we use 1000cc containers not 100ml sorry

 

[Wildchild467]

....and they use diesel fuel (in tractors and equipment) to help make the ethanol.... that makes sence. not to mention all the other power that is used (electricity) that comes from coal burning power plants? how is all of this green? im confused.

 

[panshark]

No, you pay more for gasoline. You know, the stuff that can only be pumped out of the ground once. Corn can grow another crop next year. Ethanol is holding gas prices down by around $0.20 if I recall the last study correctly. [Edit: found the study ]CARD - Error 404: Page Not Found

Is that comparing the price of a gallon of pure gas to the price of blended gas? Doesn't the ethanol blend contain contain less BTU's, thereby negating any price-per-gallon savings by delivering less MPG performance?

I could read the study and find the answer myself, but that would take the fun out of it. Also, I fear that it would not address the cost-savings of ethanol if- and when-the cost of corn rises significantly.

Additionally, is Big Gas required to blend ethanol with gasoline? If so, what happens to at-the-pump availability if there is a shortage of ethanol?

 

[plym49]

To the OP: I would not run E10 for longer periods, the lubricity is simply not there.



No, you pay more for gasoline. You know, the stuff that can only be pumped out of the ground once. Corn can grow another crop next year. Ethanol is holding gas prices down by around $0.20 if I recall the last study correctly. [Edit: found the study ]CARD - Error 404: Page Not Found

Listen, I worked in the ethanol industry, so call me biased, but I have seen the production. I did some work with material compatibility. The stuff is not even 10% as bad as people make it out to be. Mostly it is being used as a scapegoat.

All of the small engine guys were doing carb rebuilds long before E10. It is just easier to blame the carb rebuild on ethanol rather than the customer letting it sit all winter with fuel in the tank or the customer buying the $99 lawnmower from the discount store. Blaming the customer does not generate repeat business.

Typically problems with ethanol can be traced to poor transport and storage before the customer buys it. The amount of water it will absorb out of the air is very small. You can leave a jar out open and it will evaporate before it fills the jar with water.

Fun story: I had a lawnmower with some bubbles of water in the bottom of the tank which i didn't want to get sucked into the engine because it would stall it. I grabbed my bottle of 100% pure ethanol, poured in about 2 tablespoons and watched the water dissolve into the gasoline. In gasoline vehicles, ethanol makes water a non-issue as it allows the water to be dissolved into the gasoline and burnt. If you didn't have the ethanol, the water could freeze or stall the engine. Remember why people used to add Heet?

Your response gets to the heart of my question and hopefully, you can elaborate further.

First of all, I do not run gasoline in my multifuel. I guess I might once in an emergency if I were stranded, but other than that I do not ever see myself doing that.

That said, I know that many folks cut WMO with gasoline, and at some point I might try WMO, so that is why I am asking.

When the E10 grabs water, does it do so in a way that permits the fule to pass thru a multifuel engine, causing no problems? If the answer is 'yes', then adding some E10 to WMO might be a good idea to grab hold of the last of the water.

OTOH, if the answer is 'no', then it seems you would be better off cutting WMO with plain old diesel.

Inquiring minds.................

 

[plym49]

I can't find gas without alcohol nearby so I wash mine with water before I use it in my tractors or small engines.

You might have a source near check:Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

Explain, please, this washing you speak of......

 

[wdbtchr]

I buy all the gas for my old tractors and small engines in 5 gallon army cans. I add a quart of distilled water or air conditioner condensate in the summer to the can before I fill it with 4.5 gallons of E10. I let it settle with a block under one side to make a low spot to siphon off the water/alcohol that separates out. I siphon in to a glass bottle so I can clearly see when I hit the gas level to minimize the waste. Add a little gas stabilizer and your have good gas.

As far as alcohol not effecting carborated engines, if the needle valve in the carb has a delron tip(brass body with a black pointed end) the alcohol WILL most definitely soften it and make the carborator overflow. If the valve is old enough to be all brass hang on to it they don't make them anymore. If you want to argue about this just drop one in E10 and watch the tip swell up.The ethanol industry doesn't want to lose their subsidities so they claim nothing is wrong. And PINK SLIME is good for you. Just ask the FDA.

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

Just my 2 cents regarding cutting WMO with gas or diesel.

I always use diesel.

The price seems to be about $0.40 more per gallon worst case.

If I'm making 100 gallons of WMO, I'm buying 20 gallons of diesel. 20 gallons of diesel is only $8.00 more than 20 gallons of gas.

It's worth it.

 

[Wildchild467]

Just my 2 cents regarding cutting WMO with gas or diesel.

I always use diesel.

The price seems to be about $0.40 more per gallon worst case.

If I'm making 100 gallons of WMO, I'm buying 20 gallons of diesel. 20 gallons of diesel is only $8.00 more than 20 gallons of gas.

It's worth it.

It is nice to cut the WMO with something to thin it out. with all respect to you using diesel, i have found kerosene works good for me. i have used diesel too, but it seemed like kerosene was better for me. I think kerosene might be a little thinner than diesel.... not sure. at least with diesel, you can at least put it in the tank right from the hose. i have to get my truck super close to the kerosene pump to make the hose reach

 

[Wildchild467]

oh, i forgot. here is a picture of the things i am seeing down here with our equipment. we have a black looking stuff growing on our paint right by anything that has gas in it. We have experienced this with anything with a vented fuel system, not like anything on our modern cars with a sealed fuel system. This is a picture of a 420 John Deere. notice how there is a blackness all around where the fuel cap is.

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

I have used kero in the past also and found no difference.

For some reason, in my area, they really keep an eye on the kero pumps, and I definitely can't pump it right into my truck. I only have one blue can, and a bunch of red ones, so I can't fill the red ones of course since they're not blue and kero approved.

 

[Kohburn]

oh, i forgot. here is a picture of the things i am seeing down here with our equipment. we have a black looking stuff growing on our paint right by anything that has gas in it. We have experienced this with anything with a vented fuel system, not like anything on our modern cars with a sealed fuel system. This is a picture of a 420 John Deere. notice how there is a blackness all around where the fuel cap is.

I've seen that on all the cars that don't have pressure sealed gas caps.