Lockout hubs

[markehle]

Ouverson will sell one hub and one double flanged axleshaft for a front tandem unlock.

I don't mean to nitpick - did you mean double-spllined?

 

[spicergear]

Yes, thanks. Splined on both ends. I was thinking flanged because I got a pair of those double splined shafts WITH his drive flanges for Velvet back in the day before heading to TTC.

 

[markehle]

Looks like Ouverson's axles are $225. I don't need bullet proof. Who has OEM double-splined axles, and how much would I expect to pay?

Thanks again.

 

[motomacguyver]

Looks like Ouverson's axles are $225. I don't need bullet proof. Who has OEM double-splined axles, and how much would I expect to pay?

Thanks again.

I'm pretty sure Overson is the only place to get a double splined axle shaft.

 

[islandguydon]

Putting a single lockout on one of your rear hubs will keep the 2 axles from fighting to go in a straight line. To make a turn without a hub, one of the 4 pairs of duels has to slip.

A single hub in the back has 2 BIG advantages:
1) The original military NDT (we used to call them "tactical") tires are dangerous at best on slick roads, i.e. ice and rain. A lockout on a rear hub will make the whole thing follow in a turn better. The front tires don't have to fight the back ones so much.

2) It will make non-power steering at slow speed a little easier.

I've seen on this website where guys (gals too) will pull a rear axle and replace it with something (maybe a broken axle) to keep the end sealed. That will do the same thing.

So if I get this correctly, For the "maximum benefit" for lack of a better term, the correct lock out installation for a 6x6 2.5 is "2" for the front and only "1" on the rear axle. Any side no difference, CORRECT.....?

 

[plym49]

So if I get this correctly, For the "maximum benefit" for lack of a better term, the correct lock out installation for a 6x6 2.5 is "2" for the front and only "1" on the rear axle. Any side no difference, CORRECT.....?

If by maximum benefit you mean total disconnects of the steering and front tandem axles, then you only need two locking hubs. One for one side of the front steering axle, and one for one side of the front tandem axle.

I know this is anathema to many who prefer the symmetry of two locking hubs per axle. But, if you read my earlier posts on the subject, you will see that two locking hubs per axle is overkill as one will do the job. The automakers, for example, only disconnect one side.

 

[islandguydon]

I just found this excellent example of just how rugged our axles really are.

Rockwell ROCKS..!

Randy Ouverson Wheeling From 2008 - YouTube

 

[islandguydon]

Thanks, I read the entire thread, Excellent read..!. I think I am going with 3.

Thanks plym49..!

 

[gringeltaube]

............ The automakers, for example, only disconnect one side.

Yes, for some "modern" part-time 4x4's, where drive flange and wheel hub is one and the same piece. They simply sell better when in the broshure it says "shift-on-the-fly", or "no need to get out -and dirty...", for manual hubs at least.

But we are talking about FW-Hubs (FW= Free Wheeling!)
I have yet to see one of all classic 4x4 Jeeps and trucks coming with a lock-out hub only on one side. Also there is a reason those hubs normally sell in pairs, only... Guess most of us don't want ANY of the front axle inner components to be turning while on the highway...

3 FW-hubs for one Deuce; that's the way!

G.

 

[quickfarms]

Good thread

 

[Welder Sam]

if youre contemplating pulling an axle shaft to replace it with a broke one to just have it capped off, why not just use a front cap? that was my plan but, plans change. selling that bad boy now. love the front lock outs tho. they make it alot easier to steer if nothing else.

 

[ducer]

Hi, my name is Denny and this is my first post. I feel everyone is missing the obvious real reason for having 2 lockouts on the front axle. If you only unlocked one of the axles you would have a pull to the other side. The reason for this pull would br from the drag of the spider gears, diff. lube and any friction of the spinning parts from the axle that is still engaged, especialy in cold weather.

Thanks,
Denny

 

[plym49]

Hi, my name is Denny and this is my first post. I feel everyone is missing the obvious real reason for having 2 lockouts on the front axle. If you only unlocked one of the axles you would have a pull to the other side. The reason for this pull would br from the drag of the spider gears, diff. lube and any friction of the spinning parts from the axle that is still engaged, especialy in cold weather.

Thanks,
Denny

Welcome! Good thought, but it doesn't seem to happen in real life. Millions of vehicles have been built that way over the years, and they do not pull to one side.

 

[ducer]

Not a thought but a fact. Years ago I had a 1983 chevy blazer with the auto locking hubs and in cold weather the left one would not unlock all the time. As i was leaving work one day I took it out of 4 wheel and unlocked my hubs, well the left one did not fully unlock and I hit a slick spot in the road and ended up making one he11 of an unexpected left turn at 40 mph. The next day as soon as I got to work I threw the truck up on my rack and rebuilt both hubs. never had a problem after that. Also had a buddy with a 78 4x4 ford fullsize that would do the same thing. Not to mention all the other 4x4 vehicles that came in to the dealership with the same problem. Just telling what i have personaly experienced. Also it seemed the taller tire that was on it the harder it pulled.

Thanks for the welcome.

Denny

 

[patracy]

Wonder why GM and dodge would have made millions of 4x4's that function this way?

 

[Kohburn]

easy, $$$

 

[plym49]

Not a thought but a fact. Years ago I had a 1983 chevy blazer with the auto locking hubs and in cold weather the left one would not unlock all the time. As i was leaving work one day I took it out of 4 wheel and unlocked my hubs, well the left one did not fully unlock and I hit a slick spot in the road and ended up making one he11 of an unexpected left turn at 40 mph. The next day as soon as I got to work I threw the truck up on my rack and rebuilt both hubs. never had a problem after that. Also had a buddy with a 78 4x4 ford fullsize that would do the same thing. Not to mention all the other 4x4 vehicles that came in to the dealership with the same problem. Just telling what i have personaly experienced. Also it seemed the taller tire that was on it the harder it pulled.

Thanks for the welcome.

Denny

Perhaps not as much 'fact' than your 'opinion' based on your own anecdotal experiences.

I submit that an experience from 1983 in a vehicle with bad hubs might not be as many data points as would be needed to contradict the evidence.

I could follow up with my own personal experience to the contrary; namely, in several hundred thousand mile of driving GM and Jeep vehicles so equipped, I have never experienced any pull due to the design of disconnecting only one axle shaft. Pull due to tire inflation mismatch or improper alignment, for sure, but never any that could be attributed to the example you cited.

Personal experience aside, the millions of vehicles built this way certainly counts as something. If it was just '$$$' as someone suggested, then they would have gone to an alternate if this approach exhibited problems. The fact that Detroit has stayed with this for a good 25 years says a lot. Contrary to bar talk, Detroit engineers actually are pretty good at what they do and manufacturers seldom stick with a deficient design.

 

[stumps]

To give you another example of the problem, a long time ago, when I first bought a 4WD F250 truck, I took it out to play in some fresh snow. It was very cold, and the snow was about 4 inches of powder. I found the truck had so much traction in 4WD that I decided shift it into 2WD and drive along. I started up a small incline, and heard a "brup" "brup" sound, and then noticed that my rear wheels were powering along past my front wheels as I started into a spin. The "brup" sound was the noise made when my front wheels stopped turning, and started skidding on the snow. The reason they stopped turning is the cold oil in the differential required more torque to turn than the snow could provide, so the wheels skid to a stop.

I am certain that if you only have one lockout hub on your front end, your vehicle will be prone to skidding the locked wheel in slippery conditions.

If you don't believe it, you can prove it for yourself. Jack the front end of your truck up, put the transfer case in 2WD, and lock only one hub, and try turning the two front wheels. You can easily feel the extra drag of the differential in the locked hub.

-Chuck

 

[plym49]

To give you another example of the problem, a long time ago, when I first bought a 4WD F250 truck, I took it out to play in some fresh snow. It was very cold, and the snow was about 4 inches of powder. I found the truck had so much traction in 4WD that I decided shift it into 2WD and drive along. I started up a small incline, and heard a "brup" "brup" sound, and then noticed that my rear wheels were powering along past my front wheels as I started into a spin. The "brup" sound was the noise made when my front wheels stopped turning, and started skidding on the snow. The reason they stopped turning is the cold oil in the differential required more torque to turn than the snow could provide, so the wheels skid to a stop.

I am certain that if you only have one lockout hub on your front end, your vehicle will be prone to skidding the locked wheel in slippery conditions.

If you don't believe it, you can prove it for yourself. Jack the front end of your truck up, put the transfer case in 2WD, and lock only one hub, and try turning the two front wheels. You can easily feel the extra drag of the differential in the locked hub.

-Chuck

I'm sure that someone can always conjure up an extreme situation. In your case, you probably should have been in 4WD, plus you were running on a cold soak.

Many manual transmissions won't shift under similar conditions. Does that mean we should not have manuals?

The person commenting was stating that there would be pull all the time, under all driving conditions. This is simply not the case.

 

[ducer]

Stumps that is exactly what I was trying to say! Nice write up. After going back and rereading I can see where I was about as clear as mud on a cloudy day about the cold weather.

God I hate typing.

Denny