Mechanic blew up 4 starters in our M1009......

[Zoology8519]

Our mechanic blew up 4 different 12 volt starters before putting in the 24 volt we told him the vehicle needed. He is now saying that most of the glow plugs are fried and one of the alternators is testing bad, but it is not related to the blown up starters.....

It all started when we took the truck to the shop to have the freeze plugs replaced, having a big sudden coolant leak. I told them all about the M1009(as far as I knew), and told him about this site with all of the tech manuals. For the fix they said they had to take the transmission out and part of the engine. During the repair they damaged the starter solenoid taking it out, and had to order a new complete starter to replace it. Since then nothing has been right...
The Gen2 light was staying on when I got it back from them, so I said something right away when I started her up. They got under the hood with me watching and tested the alternators, said both were fine and to drive her like normal despite what I had read about doing the exact opposite. There was always a drain on the battery next to the firewall, but the one towards the grill was usually fine. I notified the mechanic, and have had to charge the battery regularly until he could get the truck in again...
After a month or two the weather got cold and I didn't have a block heater, so she sat quietly until the mechanic was ready. Next time I tried to start up, the starter didn't sound like it was engaging anything(just spinning). Called the mechanic and he found that due to putting in the wrong starter, it ripped the teeth out of the fly wheel. A huge ordeal pursued as he proceeded to "blow up" 4 different 12V starters under the hood until he conceded to put in the 24V I told him it needed, again referring him to this site to do some research. Finally got the right starter put in and he brought the truck back to me at my ranch already running on the back of the tow truck! Of course I was a little skeptical right off the bat...
They had switched the alternators so that now the Gen1 light would stay on, and after I got her back to the house I was never able to start her again. I checked both batteries with my charger, both were reading really low now instead of just the one. After fully charging them and waiting for a nice and sunny day to warm her up......smoke started coming from the exhaust right by the starter! ....Back to the mechanic...
Now he says that the starter is great, and his work fixing his errors is over. The one alternator(that was testing fine) is bad... The glow plugs(that were testing fine) are all bad.... And that all of this is in no way related to his "blowing up" 4 starters in it!! Now I need to take it somewhere else they might be able to help(they work on semis and big diesels).
I'm not very good with fixing cars myself(yet, but my wife is putting the pressure on now I tell ya)....so I need some help understanding the electrical system more to know what he could have done damage wise, or what else could have happened that may actually not be his fault... Please help me out guys!

 

[tequilaiam]

ya....probably wouldn't use that guy anymore.

For starters (pun!) swap the alternators back. Gen2 only charges the rear battery which is only needed for the glowplugs and starter. Gen1 charges the front battery that runs everything else. If that's not working and your front battery is discharging then you won't get anything to work.

It sounds like that dip**** mechanic fried your GPs and maybe both alternators. Start tracing the circuits (CUCV electric has nice colored schematics) to make sure your mechanic at least connected everything right. If he did, start replacing parts.

I suggest you get a pair of battery disconnects installed and disconnect the batteries when you're not using it. If you have something shorted to the chasis somewhere that would at least keep the batteries from discharging while the vehicle sits.

You don't need a big diesel repair facitily, you need a mechanic that understands the starting/charging system on these isn't normal and can think critically instead of throwing parts at it. Those are hard to find which is why I do my own work. Heck, the big-truck guys might assume the entire system is 24V and make things worse from there.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

y

You don't need a big diesel repair facitily, you need a mechanic that understands the starting/charging system on these isn't normal and can think critically instead of throwing parts at it. Those are hard to find

Yep.

No way should you go back to that place. It's got a terminal case of stupid. I suspect they buy idiot pills by the truckload. FOUR starters???? After being told it's 24 volts????

You'll have to decide if you are going to court with them over your losses, but do NOT let them put a wrench on that truck again!

The truth is, most mechanics are just parts-swappers. They are low-intelligence dweebs that couldn't think their way out of a paper bag. They know stuff about cars, but anything outside of their little experience box and they are lost.


Now you need to just take it one step at a time and fix things. OR start shopping around for a mechanic that has a brain, but even if you find one, it's going to be expensive.

IF you go to the other place, don't just go in and tell them things need to be fixed. Tell them the WHOLE story (without mentioning names) and ask them to document what they find. You will need that for your small-claims court to recover your losses.

 

[rtk]

I think I would be VERY concerned about ANY of the repair work they did . LET me understand this you took the truck in for freeze plugs , and they gave you back a vehicle that did not run ? WOW and you had to wait for the "MECHANIC" to get ready for a rerepair , ready for what ? Sounds like you met MIFF & BIFF . Truck shop or not , other than some of the systems , it ain't ROCKET SCIENCE ! I have been wrenching for 40 plus yrs and if I did not know something , I made the effort to find out , the old : watch one , do one , teach one . Not to drag this out , but when I screwed up , and I did , I made sure to take care of it , no question .BTW , this is going to cost you some to make right , think you should look into the legal angle as much as I hate LAWYERS ! bob k

 

[Warthog]

Your GPs need to be replaced, your alternators rebuilt and DOUBLE CHECK the battery wiring.

 

[steelandcanvas]

Please let the rest of us in Colorado know who these clowns are. PM me if you don't want everyone knowing. If you don't already know, there is a great MV Club in the Denver area. There are plenty of Members that can advise you through your repairs. See my sigline for a link.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

By the way, I've read several threads on here about replacing the freeze plugs, and I'm pretty sure no transmission or engine part removal was needed.

 

[doghead]

You are forgetting the plugs on the rear of the block.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Oh, yeah. That would do it.

 

[twomorestrokes]

Hate to say it, but these old trucks are best owned by the mechanically inclined. Even the low mileage units are still 25+ years old with old parts, wiring and connections. If not, I would definitely do some research to find a facility that is comfortable with the system. The guy's lucky he didn't get hurt. Hopefully the flywheel was replaced after it was damaged. And what Warthog said, at this point you may as well have the glow plugs replaced and the alternators rebuilt and go from there.

 

[donalloy1]

I am with twomorestrokes! We need to be able to have a good understanding of what we have at hand. Otherwise Dingo Mechanics will mess up our Rigs and cost us a fortune.

 

[rivcrazy2000]

The truth is, most mechanics are just parts-swappers. They are low-intelligence dweebs that couldn't think their way out of a paper bag. They know stuff about cars, but anything outside of their little experience box and they are lost.

This is so very true of a lot of auto mechanics. I tried explaining this to my gf one day because her brother in-law is ASE certified blah blah and no offense to the guy but they just do not explain how things work in those programs apparently. I described him exactly as being a "parts replacer, not a mechanic" to her and she got irritated. Being an aircraft mechanic I've got an entirely different set of training. You don't just swap out a starter on anything because brand new who knows how much one will cost, could very realistically be a couple thousand dollars for a new one. So you buy starter rebuild kits and swap out brushes, stator, all the replaceable internals because it is much cheaper. In this process you get to know how the internals work and what needs to happen for it to work correctly. Not an auto mechanic, a Chevy 350 starter is $90 so why would you even bother rebuilding it and then that's what you get, a parts replacer instead of a mechanic. Not to say there aren't any good auto mechanics out there, there are guys I trust my stuff to go to that actually care about the quality of their work, just not all that many.

Hope everything works out for you OP, I'm sure someone from your area can refer you to a good mechanic. I'd definitely take this to court so ask for documentation from the new mechanic of everything that could have been damaged by their mess up.

 

[quickfarms]

Have you used this mechanic before?

How did you find him?

 

[wayne pick]

Seeing as your mechanical experience is limited, you may want to consider doing the Roscommon 12v conversion on your truck. I do not endorse doing this at all as getting troubleshooting help here will be limited. Most members leave their trucks in the 12-24 configuration for just that reason. The Roscommon conversion may be a better fit for you unless you find a competent mechanic that has experience with these trucks. Search Roscommon conversion. It gives detailed instructions on how to do the conversion. A competent mechanic should be able to do it with no problems. It may also be cheaper for you in the longrun.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Being an aircraft mechanic I've got an entirely different set of training. You don't just swap out a starter on anything because brand new who knows how much one will cost, could very realistically be a couple thousand dollars for a new one.

I have a BIL who is an aircraft mechanic, so I know what you mean. Not only are parts WAY more expensive, lives may depend on your repair, and often do. There's no room for half-stepping and guessing. Plus, you guys have to document things pretty well, as I understand it.


I see the same thing in the engineering field. A lot of people with Masters in Electrical Engineering just spray and pray. They have no clue about actually doing a step by step diagnosis of a problem.

 

[twomorestrokes]

a Chevy 350 starter is $90 so why would you even bother rebuilding it and then that's what you get, a parts replacer instead of a mechanic.

That's exactly true.At $80+ per hour it really is no longer feasible to rebuild old parts as it would end up costing the customer three times as much as getting a new part. As a certified mechanic myself, I don't blame this on the technicians out there, it's just the way it is. On my own vehicles where labor costs are irrelevant, I get more enjoyment out of repairing the parts I have when at all possible. An alternator rebuild kit is much cheaper than a new alternator.

As far as arguing with the wife and belittling her brother, are you sure that was a wise thing to do?

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

That's exactly true.At $80+ per hour it really is no longer feasible to rebuild old parts as it would end up costing the customer three times as much as getting a new part. As a certified mechanic myself, I don't blame this on the technicians out there, it's just the way it is.

Yep. So it gets sent to a factory where they are "rebuilt" by minimum wage parts-swappers, if they are rebuilt at all. Or maybe, they get shipped overseas to be rebuilt by LESS than minimum wage parts swappers.

Mechanics cannot be expected to compete with that setup.