hho injection?

[MarcusOReallyus]

Marcus, guess the past year our GenSets and other small engines weren't really running on HHO

1. There's no such thing as "HHO". As previously stated, use of that term indicates either ignorance or dishonesty.
2. Nobody is running an engine solely on hydrogen and oxygen made entirely from electrolysis of water, using electricity produced by an alternator driven by that same engine.

You may be augmenting a diesel (or gas) engine with hydrogen & oxygen produced by electrolysis from your alternator, but augmenting with hydrogen is not running on hydrogen. You are still burning diesel fuel or gasoline.

The results of such augmentation may be very beneficial, or not. I don't know.

I DO know the basics of 7th grade science, and so I know nobody is running an engine on fuel produced by that same engine. (And that has nothing to do with efficiency.)


Let me know when you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Then we can talk about perpetual motion machines.



http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

They are in for a bigger surprise than they think if they try to run ANY vaporized fuel in an LDS/LDT. If they get any real Hydrogen production anyway. (Which is questionable)

Actually, I've seen some pretty impressive hydrogen production from some of these units. Not enough to run a decent sized engine by itself, of course, but it's still impressive for what it is.


Of course, the uneducated then assume that, since they can get hydrogen & oxygen to form, all the rest of the hokum must be true.

I'm not at all convinced of any real gains in fuel economy, but I can see at least the theoretical possibility of such augmentation increasing the efficiency of the fossil fuel burn so that there IS a net gain.

Mind you, I'm not saying I'm convinced that the gains are there, I'm just saying that I can see at least some possibility of it, unlike the cockamamie idea that you can get energy out of nothing.

I have a friend who says he's getting 3-4 MPG improvement on a gas engine. Hmmm. I'm not convinced he's done a carefully controlled experiment, so all I will say about it at this point is.... maybe.


*sigh* I've got an uncle who has fallen hook, line, sinker, and wallet for the "Browns' Gas" scam. He's dumped a lot of money into some "company" that is going to "revolutionize the welding industry". Sad.

 

[scottladdy]

Alternator Secrets

NK14 would you be kind enough to qualify that "HP loss" from a alternator that is driven but not under "load" (fully charged bat) to the "loss of HP" via a "charging" under load one?

So, pretty easy to find information out on that new fangled internet thingy.

According to this: http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/1431/Alternator_Secrets.pdf (page 8 )

"Suppose we're producing 3600 watts. Since 746 watts equals one horsepower, it's a simple matter to calculate the mechanical power needed:

horsepower = watts / 746
​

= 3600 / 746
​

= 4.8
​

By the time you add power lost in bearings and fan windage, you'll probably need 5 1/2 horsepower."

 

[Stalwart]

Modern alternators are only 50-60% efficient, so for a 100 A draw at 28VDC you'd need about 8 hp EXTRA to drive it at all times. That doesn't include the load to run all other systems or recharge the batteries.

 

[m16ty]

Let me know when you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Then we can talk about perpetual motion machines.

That's easy. I found this on the internet so it's bound to be true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Fv53K9MnDuM

 

[scottladdy]

That's easy. I found this on the internet so it's bound to be true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Fv53K9MnDuM

That's funny, I swear the exact same switch used to turn on the motor when hooked up to AC power, shut down the system when not connected.

How could that happen?

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

That's easy. I found this on the internet so it's bound to be true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Fv53K9MnDuM

That would be funny if it were not so sad.

That there are enough ignorant people out there to make such scams profitable does not say good things about our country's future.

 

[Heath_h49008]

Actually, I've seen some pretty impressive hydrogen production from some of these units. Not enough to run a decent sized engine by itself, of course, but it's still impressive for what it is.


Of course, the uneducated then assume that, since they can get hydrogen & oxygen to form, all the rest of the hokum must be true.

I'm not at all convinced of any real gains in fuel economy, but I can see at least the theoretical possibility of such augmentation increasing the efficiency of the fossil fuel burn so that there IS a net gain.

Mind you, I'm not saying I'm convinced that the gains are there, I'm just saying that I can see at least some possibility of it, unlike the cockamamie idea that you can get energy out of nothing.

I have a friend who says he's getting 3-4 MPG improvement on a gas engine. Hmmm. I'm not convinced he's done a carefully controlled experiment, so all I will say about it at this point is.... maybe.


*sigh* I've got an uncle who has fallen hook, line, sinker, and wallet for the "Browns' Gas" scam. He's dumped a lot of money into some "company" that is going to "revolutionize the welding industry". Sad.

Hydrogen torches work, there is just an explosion/leak risk, and the amount of gas made for the amount of electricity pretty well limits you to micro-torches. But I hear it's the cat patootie for brazing jewelry.

 

[m16ty]

If you want to see some promising hydrogen options, do some research on hydrogen fuel cells.

I know we all dream of the day we can just pour water into our vehicles and head out but I've said it before and I'll say it again, IT TAKES MORE ENERGY TO "CRACK" WATER THAN IT PRODUCES. Those that claim it don't or say you can get "free" energy out of the vehicle alternator are either very ignorant or are scammers.

 

[swbradley1]

Those that claim it don't or say you can get "free" energy out of the vehicle alternator are either very ignorant or are scammers.

Not either or, but both.

 

[Heath_h49008]

If you want to see some promising hydrogen options, do some research on hydrogen fuel cells.

I know we all dream of the day we can just pour water into our vehicles and head out but I've said it before and I'll say it again, IT TAKES MORE ENERGY TO "CRACK" WATER THAN IT PRODUCES. Those that claim it don't or say you can get "free" energy out of the vehicle alternator are either very ignorant or are scammers.

My alternative energy prof was talking about these... it was the big push during the Bush years. (Hydrogen economy) As you said, the problem is, hydrogen is primarily sourced from oil refineries. It just isn't efficient to produce hydrogen.

One that I'm fairly certain you might see in the near future is the "Bloom Box" or another SOFC run to a nanotube capacitor and then electric motor. Natural Gas is abundant, and this method eliminates all of the inefficient conversions. Fuel cells don't ramp up quickly enough on their own to work in a car or truck, (may work for a train)... but if you have a capacitor as "shock absorber" in the system it works just dandy.

One really nice thing about Bloom, if you feed it electricity, it PRODUCES methane in reverse operation. So imagine a solar cell running and making fuel anytime you're not running the vehicle, and you use it to drive on when you need it. Of course, if you don't have time to wait, just fill it up at a gas station or anywhere else with CNG/LNG. It would work for homes as well... all summer you solar collect and make methane, in the winter you consume it to heat the home make electricity.

There are real technologies out there for alternative energy production and storage, but the majority of people are looking for HHO type ways to "cheat" the system.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Hydrogen torches work, there is just an explosion/leak risk, and the amount of gas made for the amount of electricity pretty well limits you to micro-torches. But I hear it's the cat patootie for brazing jewelry.

Yeah, it has it's place. But the dirty little secret is, it's not a secret. The welding industry has known about it for a long time. It's a specialty thing, not a revolutionary thing.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Not either or, but both.

No, I don't agree. Many are duped, and really believe this stuff. A man who says something he honestly believes is not a liar, even if what he believes is not true.

I'm sure that most of the people you see on forums pushing this stuff really believe in it. Like my uncle, they have been taken in by the scammers (like Stan Meyer), and I think it's wrong to accuse them of dishonesty.

Ignorance, yes. Gullibility, yes. Dishonesty, no.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

My alternative energy prof was talking about these... it was the big push during the Bush years. (Hydrogen economy) As you said, the problem is, hydrogen is primarily sourced from oil refineries. It just isn't efficient to produce hydrogen.

Yep. What many of the greenie crowd fails to understand is that hydrogen is an energy storage and transport medium, not an energy source. We have to spend a lot of energy to produce it.

If we produce it using solar, the sun is the energy source. We just store that energy in the form of hydrogen so that we can use it where and when we want it, no longer tied to the solar array. Same for producing it from hydroelectric, nuke, or coal plants. We are just taking energy from another source, and storing it in the form of hydrogen so we can use it where and when it's convenient, untied from the grid.

It's no different than charging a battery as far as energy production is concerned. We don't produce any energy when we charge a battery, and most people understand that. But somehow, when we do exactly the same thing with hydrogen, people think we've created a new energy source.

One that I'm fairly certain you might see in the near future is the "Bloom Box" or another SOFC run to a nanotube capacitor and then electric motor. Natural Gas is abundant, and this method eliminates all of the inefficient conversions. Fuel cells don't ramp up quickly enough on their own to work in a car or truck, (may work for a train)... but if you have a capacitor as "shock absorber" in the system it works just dandy.

One really nice thing about Bloom, if you feed it electricity, it PRODUCES methane in reverse operation. So imagine a solar cell running and making fuel anytime you're not running the vehicle, and you use it to drive on when you need it. Of course, if you don't have time to wait, just fill it up at a gas station or anywhere else with CNG/LNG. It would work for homes as well... all summer you solar collect and make methane, in the winter you consume it to heat the home make electricity.

Very cool, and new to me! Something to look into!

 

[doghead]

Thread closed