Rambling Wreck
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Absolutely not and that's why I ask questions. Thanks for the good information.Simply put: Do you believe everything the government puts into a press release?.. or the media reports?..
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LMTV at DRMO, spec's? Engine?
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Derrickl112
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I also noticed that my a1 has an exhaust brake. I don't think your m1094 has one?This goes back to quoting info from the web. Some info is out there to ease bad reps and sell a "newer, better" truck to the public. I only comment on my truck and hate 3rd hand info. I'll wait for a FMTV mechanic to actually say what is what. None of what's in that attached files indicates any major change... a more powerful engine could just be retuning, same with the trans or internal parts were beefed up..? I just wouldn't read anything into a release without documentation to actually spell it out
THE visual things I can say for sure are that there was a new gear selector WTECII to a WTECIII (mine has a II, but believing the factory that my 1996, delivered in '97 truck is a A1) so that isn't a definate change , later trucks had different door latches/handles. Different PDP (power distribution panel) on newer trucks. My new AO doors have different markers than the original ( but old style latches/handles). My truck has some other changes that supposedly makes it a A1 that aren't in the original TMs. I'm not about read more into it. the truck is what it is, and deal with it as such.
Simply put: Do you believe everything the government puts into a press release?.. or the media reports?
DSD277
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OH, Yeah! well, mine has a trans controller!
OK, so you do have a roof over your head
Derrickl112
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Your truck also has a trans oil pan and valve body. LOLOH, Yeah! well, mine has a trans controller!
OK, so you do have a roof over your head
Mercunimog404
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The exhaust brakes are amazing. I had one chirp the tires when It shifted down. Especially in this area going up and down the long mountain roads and not having to use the brakes.
DSD277
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I think I hear the first born going up for sale.
There were several 4070s on GL a few month back. Things never seem to happen in the right order
Mercunimog404
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I also don't think the engine being electronically controlled is and issue. We have a 915 that has 180000 miles on it and its been reliable. Granted its a different motor, but is electronically controlled.
Derrickl112
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Pezz
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Great info in this thread and in the post above ^^
Figured I'd add something, even being a FNG. Most of the newer trucks should come with the Caterpillar 3126B or E 6 cylinder diesel with the HUEI injection system and Allison 3500sp or 2500sp transmission. Both fantastic peices of equipment. The CAT 3126 was the pre-curser to the CAT C7. The C7 is a lot more expense to maintain so a 3126 is a better option for Owner Ops or local FD like yourself. For example, the 3126 can have the piston and sleeve replaced but the C7 will need the block replaced if the cylinder wear is over .040ish. Biggest thing is with the HEUI system make sure to change the oil when its needed because old oil will cause the engine to run ruff. Its odd but would take me a day to explain the HEUI system lol. The Allison, well lets put it this way. Allison rep. once told me the best thing to do for a overheating trans is drop a gear and roll on. So aka cant go wrong IMO. The electronics do have their faults but still a **** good system just make sure you are really good with Tyco or Bosch relay's. Autoshop101.com has a Relay section if you want to learn.
Figured I'd add something, even being a FNG. Most of the newer trucks should come with the Caterpillar 3126B or E 6 cylinder diesel with the HUEI injection system and Allison 3500sp or 2500sp transmission. Both fantastic peices of equipment. The CAT 3126 was the pre-curser to the CAT C7. The C7 is a lot more expense to maintain so a 3126 is a better option for Owner Ops or local FD like yourself. For example, the 3126 can have the piston and sleeve replaced but the C7 will need the block replaced if the cylinder wear is over .040ish. Biggest thing is with the HEUI system make sure to change the oil when its needed because old oil will cause the engine to run ruff. Its odd but would take me a day to explain the HEUI system lol. The Allison, well lets put it this way. Allison rep. once told me the best thing to do for a overheating trans is drop a gear and roll on. So aka cant go wrong IMO. The electronics do have their faults but still a **** good system just make sure you are really good with Tyco or Bosch relay's. Autoshop101.com has a Relay section if you want to learn.
LMNOP28
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^ I'll 2nd what he said. The MTV's are great trucks. They were the Army's best truck up time and maintenance wise while I was in. It's loads more reliable than any HMMWV variant PERIOD, and will go further offroad in my experience. (and I have pushed the limits in these) The FMTV (what we called the 6x6) was my truck, period. I fought people to keep it on a couple of occasions. Ha. I would choose it over any of the POS HMMWV's we had any day of the week. The only non regular service things I had to do were related to hazardous conditions. ( C-wire wrapped around axle cutting air brake lines, broken mirrors due to kissing mirrors with other trucks doing 45, etc. haha) The electronics were never an issue. There's a youtube vid of some dumba$$ national guard fools driving these trucks in Katrina up PAST the windshield and eventually up to roof level where the intake is, killing the trucks. But they most definitely will drive through 6' of water all day long, in original form. Not bad for electronically controlled trucks. =) The early ones weren't my favorites, the later ones ...with more electronics...seemed to be more solid. I don't feel like they were any more top heavy than anything else, they just feel that way because of the driving dynamics. I got chewed out regularly for driving my 6x6 too fast for OTHER'S liking, and would regularly get the rear inside wheelset spinning like mad headed around the round abouts on Victory Base Complex in Baghdad... So they're not THAT top heavy. LMTV maybe more so because it doesn't have the added low CG weight of that extra axle etc. I had mine on some pretty wild side grades though, scared the crap out of any passengers. They were not nearly as reputable for rollovers as the uparmored HMMWV's. I was there when the rollovers were killing more soldiers than the IED's, so I can attest to that. The cabs aren't too thin, they'll handle brush just fine. You can attach a brush guard to the front bumper if you wanted to, it's a fairly solid piece. I took out many of trees and iraqi street signs with mine without doing anything more than scratching the paint. Lots of misinformation on these trucks, but statistically and from my experience they are very reliable. I think the biggest enemy of them is dumb army mechs who don't know what the heck they're doing...and that's a very widespread problem. I usually fixed all my own trucks. I loved my FMTV, and I will buy one someday if I have the money and the land. (hopefully sooner than later) These trucks are AWESOME. The ride isn't that bad on the highway either, offroad just air the tires down and it's not that bad. Just under 60 is governed speed, but they're actually very quick trucks for their size...they just need an extra gear. Hope that helps some of ya who want some real opinions on them. The FMTV's made the rest of the Army's trucks look like pieces of crap when I was in. (2003-200
Hello,
The LMTV is a good truck in general, with some strong points and some draw backs. I would recommend against it and towards a M939 series for fire work though. For one, like the earily ears of any automobile, the earily years of the LMTV were not reliable ones. (and that is more likely the year frame of the one you are looking at)? The LMTV does not have the payload it really needs for firefighting. Once you mount the equipment there is no capacity for water or foam, where-as the 5 ton can still hold 1400ish gallons offroad and 3000 on road.... The LMTV is AWESOME at driving over logs, debris, etc, and has a much tighter turning radius than the M939 trucks. Unfortunatly, the same features that allow for a tight turning radius KILL it in soft wet soil. We got am LMTV stuck with 3 tires on dry pavement and 1 in a 4'x4' mudpuddle in the desert when a front tire sunk and it was resting on it's frame. The lack of the tandom tires in the back really hurts on soft ground, and the much higher front end weight ratio does too. Also, as mentioned, they are much more roll prone: say you are driving at a safe angle but get some soft ground or a bump that increases your rate of roll and find it's suddenly unrecoverable. Many LMTVs have been rolled FORWARD over the cab coming down hill and slowing, as they are front heavy and more than capible to go UP slopes they can't return down. I've traded in LMTVs for M923s before because of some of these issues. (BTW, that tends to really piss people in certain positions off)! Oh, many units had to have the CTIS modes other than HWY and cross country disabled to to even higher tendancy to roll when the tires were aired down, never had that problem with the M939 series. The LMTV does rock at driving through the woods though, that's where the better turn radius and even higher ground clearance really shine.
A 6 wheel FMTV would suit you better, but it doesn't gain you much over a M939 series, parts are harder to come by, and prices are WAY higher of course!
Just keep in mind, that while the LMTV is a capible truck, a bunch of us, myself included, knew plenty of people who aren't around anymore because the Gov pushed the LMTV out a lot faster than they pushed out training for them and manditory roll rate gauges, they don't handle quite the same as the older trucks, I.E. tend to keep the rubber down, so If you do go for it, include in your cost a good training program for your department.
The LMTV is a good truck in general, with some strong points and some draw backs. I would recommend against it and towards a M939 series for fire work though. For one, like the earily ears of any automobile, the earily years of the LMTV were not reliable ones. (and that is more likely the year frame of the one you are looking at)? The LMTV does not have the payload it really needs for firefighting. Once you mount the equipment there is no capacity for water or foam, where-as the 5 ton can still hold 1400ish gallons offroad and 3000 on road.... The LMTV is AWESOME at driving over logs, debris, etc, and has a much tighter turning radius than the M939 trucks. Unfortunatly, the same features that allow for a tight turning radius KILL it in soft wet soil. We got am LMTV stuck with 3 tires on dry pavement and 1 in a 4'x4' mudpuddle in the desert when a front tire sunk and it was resting on it's frame. The lack of the tandom tires in the back really hurts on soft ground, and the much higher front end weight ratio does too. Also, as mentioned, they are much more roll prone: say you are driving at a safe angle but get some soft ground or a bump that increases your rate of roll and find it's suddenly unrecoverable. Many LMTVs have been rolled FORWARD over the cab coming down hill and slowing, as they are front heavy and more than capible to go UP slopes they can't return down. I've traded in LMTVs for M923s before because of some of these issues. (BTW, that tends to really piss people in certain positions off)! Oh, many units had to have the CTIS modes other than HWY and cross country disabled to to even higher tendancy to roll when the tires were aired down, never had that problem with the M939 series. The LMTV does rock at driving through the woods though, that's where the better turn radius and even higher ground clearance really shine.
A 6 wheel FMTV would suit you better, but it doesn't gain you much over a M939 series, parts are harder to come by, and prices are WAY higher of course!
Just keep in mind, that while the LMTV is a capible truck, a bunch of us, myself included, knew plenty of people who aren't around anymore because the Gov pushed the LMTV out a lot faster than they pushed out training for them and manditory roll rate gauges, they don't handle quite the same as the older trucks, I.E. tend to keep the rubber down, so If you do go for it, include in your cost a good training program for your department.
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Many have rolled forward? As in a front flip, the rear of the truck flipping up and over the front? I'm very skeptical that has happened to even one FMTV. What's your source?
I haven't looked at the stats on FMTV accidents, but when I have some time I can look up every case of a reported Army accident involving an FMTV. From what I've seen they're pretty safe. I've been in multiple units with many FMTVs and the only accident I've witnessed, read a report on, investigated, or even heard about, involved a Soldier running over something because he didn't have a ground guide. In the same span of time I've witnessed, seen the aftermath, investigated, or written reports on HMMWV accidents, Stryker accidents, HEMTT accidents, etc. so in my little piece of the world, FMTVs seem pretty safe.
Mercunimog404
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Fmtvs are very capable. They have been reliable and I have never seen one roll forward he may be taking about the up armored ones. The bob tailed trucks we have have extra weight on the back. But I have never seen one roll forward going down hill. I don't know why Americans are so hesitant about change. If older is better then why aren't we still driving around model t's? The lmtv is based off the steyr 12 m 18. Granted Europeans are still ahead of us as they have lockers in there trucks. But they have been very good. All trucks have some flaw. Even the "mighty" m35 and 5 tons have flaws.
http://youtu.be/Mm6A7i8gf4o
http://youtu.be/Mm6A7i8gf4o
Yes, a front flip. Keep in mind I’m referencing the 4x4 LMTV, not the 6x6 FMTVs. I have seen 3 of the rolled vehicles myself. It was a problem out at YTC which mandated that at least for a while, only humvee's were allowed to be used for brush fire trucks and medevac. One of the LMTV's that rolled forward was a brush fire truck, one a medevac, and one just a plane uparmored LMTV that was new to the unit. all three had gone to the top of a ridgeline and where on there way back down when it happened (seperate incidents).
I'm not saying they are not good trucks, they are. This is one small area where most people would never find themselves in trouble, but as a brush fire truck, the OP's intended usage, you have to be careful because the LMTV can go UP slopes it can't go back DOWN. Oh, and BTW, yes, the Humvee's SUCKED for brush fire fighting... I used one about 3 days after the LMTV rolled fighting a fire at YTC.... It just didn't have the power to go up the slope with all the equipment in it, we ended up having to abandon it because it couldn't keep up with the flames and then come back for it later! Anyway, as I mentioned in my reply earlier, this is manly a training issue to be aware of when transitioning from the older 2.5 and 5 ton trucks, especially when a crew is driving the LMTV in the same area they are used to. It just has different characteristics, some good, some bad.
Didn't they drop the slope rating on the LMTV to 40 deg or something like that to address the issue? -Or maybe that was a local policy. I just know at the time there was quite a big deal made out of it. IIRC, on the uparmored one the crew had not recieved training for it and 3 soldiers drowned when it rolled into the Columbia and, due to the uparmored cab, they couldn't get out. I know they mandated rollover traning on Ft. Lewis and made changes to the doors on all the uparmored vehicles due partially to that incident, and partially due to some where uparmored humvees rolled sideways into the water.
Take care.
SEAFIRE
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Update for this thread, our mechanic looked it over, the county purchased the truck for $5k, they were asking $10k, but the drive shafts were both slightly bent ( forklift unloading? ), so he talked them into knocking $5k off. He hauled it back on a trailer, pulled the drive shafts off and sent them to a shop to have new ones made. This will be a long term project. We went back and picked up five new LMTV/FMTV tires on rims for $125 each for spares.
The tool kit was missing, the tool kit door looked like it was pryed open with a pry bar, and the drivers side outside door handle is missing, other than the drive shafts it is in excellent shape. Ours has the third center seat with the hatch in the roof for a MG, we may mount a nozzle up there....
If we ever get another I'd like a 6x6 FMTV. We figure the LMTV will be better than a 1 ton pick-up with a flat bed that most departments around here seem to be going too.
Eight years ago, out of the seven fire departments in our county, six had ex-military trucks ( 2.5 and 5-tons ) as brush trucks, now there are only two, us included.
The tool kit was missing, the tool kit door looked like it was pryed open with a pry bar, and the drivers side outside door handle is missing, other than the drive shafts it is in excellent shape. Ours has the third center seat with the hatch in the roof for a MG, we may mount a nozzle up there....
Our mechanic was a "field guy" with a service truck when he was with S&S.
If we ever get another I'd like a 6x6 FMTV. We figure the LMTV will be better than a 1 ton pick-up with a flat bed that most departments around here seem to be going too.
Eight years ago, out of the seven fire departments in our county, six had ex-military trucks ( 2.5 and 5-tons ) as brush trucks, now there are only two, us included.
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RedBlok
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I drove both the 4x4 and 6x6 back in the day. I liked my 6x6 much better than the 4x4. 6x6 felt much more stable. Cab overs to tend to be a little bouncy. I still liked driving Deuce or 5 Ton better, although the cool and new factor when we first got the FMTV/LMTV's had everybody excited because they were new. Months afterward, both my 1st SGT and head mechanic were both wanted back our 5 Ton Trucks - that was in 2002. Good Luck with them.
DSD277
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All forward control trucks handle differently than conventional cabs, especially when empty .This is from the small Haflingers, Pinzgauers, LR101 and into the medium duty 2 axle trucks. The lack of weight in the rear makes for a quick and easy way for the rear to easily swap end on downhill, braking and steering maneuvers . Given the same size bed and load capacity, the forward control will be shorter overall and in wheelbase, also changing its road characteristics .
Another characteristics overlooked in the actual driving of a forward control is that the driver is now positioned over or in front of the steering axle and he must wait until he is physically in an intersection before turning, whereas in a conventional cab, the steering axle is in front of the driver and he starts turning the vehicle before he (the driver) has reached the intersection. As minor as this seems, many people have trouble with this and will turn into things, side swiping things.
With over 12 years of driving all kinds of Euro forward controls ( and 40 + including a VW bus) I can tell you that the 4x4 and 6x6 Pinzgauers not only handle differently, but there is even a bigger difference between the 4x4 gas Pinz and Diesel Pinz in which there is a 8” wheelbase difference. The rear axle is even being farther behind the driver and
an offroad line has to be altered for that even. A few times I had kissed a boulder with a rear tire because I was following a gas Pinz and didn’t hold a straight line the couple of inches needed for the rear to be clear.
There is even more differences that cause handling issues that drivers need to be aware of to safely operate the 2 axled forward controls. The 3 axled models are much more stable and a bit more forgiving as far as driving maneuvers
Seafire,
Good luck with the rework. I like the FMTVs, just too many conventional cab drivers that don't understand the forward control and mechanics that have problems grasping a different way of doing something. Fortunately you have a S/S mechanic and you're well ahead in the game.
Other than the damaged done in the landing "malfunction" of my M1094, the rest of the damage was by forklift where they had wood blocked at the middle axle for one fork, the other fork lifted at the front guards tweeking the guards, fuel tank and the tool box. Relativity minor damage. Fortunately, no mechanical damage done.
Cheers
Dave
Another characteristics overlooked in the actual driving of a forward control is that the driver is now positioned over or in front of the steering axle and he must wait until he is physically in an intersection before turning, whereas in a conventional cab, the steering axle is in front of the driver and he starts turning the vehicle before he (the driver) has reached the intersection. As minor as this seems, many people have trouble with this and will turn into things, side swiping things.
With over 12 years of driving all kinds of Euro forward controls ( and 40 + including a VW bus) I can tell you that the 4x4 and 6x6 Pinzgauers not only handle differently, but there is even a bigger difference between the 4x4 gas Pinz and Diesel Pinz in which there is a 8” wheelbase difference. The rear axle is even being farther behind the driver and
an offroad line has to be altered for that even. A few times I had kissed a boulder with a rear tire because I was following a gas Pinz and didn’t hold a straight line the couple of inches needed for the rear to be clear.
There is even more differences that cause handling issues that drivers need to be aware of to safely operate the 2 axled forward controls. The 3 axled models are much more stable and a bit more forgiving as far as driving maneuvers
Seafire,
Good luck with the rework. I like the FMTVs, just too many conventional cab drivers that don't understand the forward control and mechanics that have problems grasping a different way of doing something. Fortunately you have a S/S mechanic and you're well ahead in the game.
Other than the damaged done in the landing "malfunction" of my M1094, the rest of the damage was by forklift where they had wood blocked at the middle axle for one fork, the other fork lifted at the front guards tweeking the guards, fuel tank and the tool box. Relativity minor damage. Fortunately, no mechanical damage done.
Cheers
Dave
Mercunimog404
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It's really not that hard to drive a forward control truckAll forward control trucks handle differently than conventional cabs, especially when empty .This is from the small Haflingers, Pinzgauers, LR101 and into the medium duty 2 axle trucks. The lack of weight in the rear makes for a quick and easy way for the rear to easily swap end on downhill, braking and steering maneuvers . Given the same size bed and load capacity, the forward control will be shorter overall and in wheelbase, also changing its road characteristics .
Another characteristics overlooked in the actual driving of a forward control is that the driver is now positioned over or in front of the steering axle and he must wait until he is physically in an intersection before turning, whereas in a conventional cab, the steering axle is in front of the driver and he starts turning the vehicle before he (the driver) has reached the intersection. As minor as this seems, many people have trouble with this and will turn into things, side swiping things.
With over 12 years of driving all kinds of Euro forward controls ( and 40 + including a VW bus) I can tell you that the 4x4 and 6x6 Pinzgauers not only handle differently, but there is even a bigger difference between the 4x4 gas Pinz and Diesel Pinz in which there is a 8” wheelbase difference. The rear axle is even being farther behind the driver and
an offroad line has to be altered for that even. A few times I had kissed a boulder with a rear tire because I was following a gas Pinz and didn’t hold a straight line the couple of inches needed for the rear to be clear.
There is even more differences that cause handling issues that drivers need to be aware of to safely operate the 2 axled forward controls. The 3 axled models are much more stable and a bit more forgiving as far as driving maneuvers
Seafire,
Good luck with the rework. I like the FMTVs, just too many conventional cab drivers that don't understand the forward control and mechanics that have problems grasping a different way of doing something. Fortunately you have a S/S mechanic and you're well ahead in the game.
Other than the damaged done in the landing "malfunction" of my M1094, the rest of the damage was by forklift where they had wood blocked at the middle axle for one fork, the other fork lifted at the front guards tweeking the guards, fuel tank and the tool box. Relativity minor damage. Fortunately, no mechanical damage done.
Cheers
Dave
. My Unimog has never wanted to swap ends going down steep hills. Not once and I've gone down some steep hills.
DSD277
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Before I made my post, I was wondering how long it would take for a Mogger to take offense.It's really not that hard to drive a forward control truck
Mogs are very capable machine, and was purposely omitted from the list because they are not a true forward control. The driver is still behind the front axle and the front axles on Mogs are moved as far as possible on the frame, also commonly done on modern passenger vans now. And in my comments, I said many drivers have problems, some people aren’t able to adapt, as some people just can’t drive a car safely.I had a 1300 SBU and loved it. I toyed at getting a 404 at one time, but I don’t care for the “race car” type seating (same with the 406,416 and 417)and the slower speed and went the way of Pinzes.. that is me and others have done the same, it is a personal choice.
This discussion has turn to what a person is thrusted into driving, and not by his choice, and as I said, some cannot adapt.