HH Orings replaced, now low power??

[searls84]

Ok here is some back story to the current problem, don't know if it is relevant but can't hurt! It's on my 1965 M35a2c LDT 465-1c D turbo

Stuff started acting up when my brother and I got back from a 600 mile trip in 0 degree weather running WMO and a heavy load. The truck had a hard time staying running at idle, changed the filters and that got it back to normal then drained the tank because of a dirty batch of WMO and changed the filters again. Ran good and normal power.

About 2 weeks ago we decided to replace all the plastic IP lines, fix a leak where the oil filter housing mounts to the block, and replace all 3 HH orings. Got all this done, and she starts fine and idles fine and has power 1st-3rd gear but in 4th and 5th, it's a real task to get it reach 2k RPMs on flat ground. I turned the fuel up 7 flats yesterday with on slight improvement... One thing I will add I that when I had the HH out, I spun the gear with the red tooth by accident. I took a couple of tries to get it back in the IP, but eventually it slid right in. Any way threw something off with the timing? I'm also wondering if the dirty fuel made its way into the HH and put some wear on the plunger?

Any thought or suggestions? Or related threads?

Thanks!!

PS I found a lot of similar threads, but not quite the symptoms I'm having.

 

[searls84]

Another thing I forgot to add is that it's now running on 90% diesel and 10% WMO with a touch of 2-stroke gas.

 

[searls84]

Anyone???

 

[91W350]

Two stroke gas with water? Editing to add that on another thread I read where somebody added two stroke fuel from a boat that had water in it. The water is a huge issue... I went back and looked, it was not you. Glen

 

[searls84]

Nope no water, it was out of my weedeater.

 

[m-35tom]

when you took the HH out you should have lined the red tooth up first. then the HH would come right out easy and if you did not turn the MOTOR the HH would go right back in easy with no problem when you lined the red tooth up for that process. if this is exactly what you did the timing should be exactly like it was and you can look elsewhere for problems. what worries me is you saying the HH was a problem to put back in. you could look at the ip timing mark and with it lined up the red tooth should be one tooth to the rear of it's pointer.

 

[searls84]

when you took the HH out you should have lined the red tooth up first. then the HH would come right out easy and if you did not turn the MOTOR the HH would go right back in easy with no problem when you lined the red tooth up for that process. if this is exactly what you did the timing should be exactly like it was and you can look elsewhere for problems. what worries me is you saying the HH was a problem to put back in. you could look at the ip timing mark and with it lined up the red tooth should be one tooth to the rear of it's pointer.

It came out very easy! Got the red tooth lined up and out she came, no problem there. The only reason it was hard to get it back in was that when I was sliding the new orings in the HH, I accidentally spun the gear with the red tooth while the HH was out. I didn't know which way I had turned it so I just turned the gear until the red tooth was more or less where it was when I pulled it out. Did NOT ever turn the motor. It took a couple Of times of setting the HH in the IP and pulling it out to get the red tooth in the right spot so that it would slide back in. Does anyone have the TM that show how to check the timing? I looked a bit but unsuccessfully.

I read a couple threads that mentioned having the HH turned 180 out, but the truck would still run, with low power and black smoke. Then I read a post that gringletaub had put replied to saying that it wasn't possible to have the HH 180 out. Is this possible???

Even after turning the fuel up 7 flats, the truck doesn't smoke anymore than it did prior to messing with the fuel.

Another variable I found today was that I have a small leak in the #6 injector line where it screws into the HH. Could this be part of the problem? It has always had a small leak there, but it is now a little worse than before.

 

[m-35tom]

it does not matter that you turned the gear on the HH, it will go in in any position, but ONLY ONE IS CORRECT. when you put the HH back in and before anything turned, was the red tooth lined up with it's pointer?? if you are not completely sure, remove the ip timing window and line up that pointer and look for the red tooth. you may have to turn the engine one rev if the red tooth is not there the first time. the red tooth comes by one time for every two times the ip timing line does. the red tooth will now be one tooth to the rear when the ip pointer is lined up.

 

[searls84]

When I put the HH back in I didn't check that the red tooth was aligned with the pointer. I just assumed that if it would only come out on way, then it would only go back in one way... Guess I will pull the IP timing cover and verify that everything is lined up as it should be this afternoon and report back. Thanks m-35tom, this is the kind of feed back I was needing!

 

[m-35tom]

ok, well now you are going to have a very hard time removing the HH again since you will not know where to set the ip position. DO NOT FORCE IT as you know now it should come out easily. when you are ready to actually pull the HH, start with the red tooth in front of the pointer and line up a tooth with the pointer and try. if it does not come, line up the next tooth, etc. there is a cover on the quill shft gear that has a cutout in it. this is what you are 'fishing' for.

 

[searls84]

Ok, here's what I found.... Aligned the timing marks on the injector pump and verified them with the ones on the harmonic balancer. With those two lined up, the red tooth was one tooth to the left of the alignment mark. So I turned the motor until the HH came free (easily) and lined the red tooth back up with the alignment mark. I then crawled back under the truck and turned the motor so that the timing mark on the IP and harmonic balancer were aligned. I then checked the red tooth in the HH and verified that it was set one tooth to the right of the alignment mark as stated in the TM. Put everything back together and fired it. Took a shot of starter fluid to get it started but ran fine once it got going.

Here's the NEW problem, it ran fine at idle and ran fine at higher RPMs, but when I would let off the gas (as you would when shifting gears or giving it a quick rev) it bogs hard and wants to die then recovers. Almost like it can't get enough fuel quick enough to put pressure back into the injectors. But never actually died. So I turned the main fuel setting back to stock and gave it another try but still the same.... What the heck am I missing!!??

 

[fsearls92]

I also want to add that after we had the problems on our long trip and replacing two sets of filters. It was never back to perfect. It was better but not 100%

 

[searls84]

I also want to add that after we had the problems on our long trip and replacing two sets of filters. It was never back to perfect. It was better but not 100%

Meaning after the dirty batch of fuel on our trip..... (Yes fsearls92 is my brother )

 

[searls84]

Ok, after sitting and thinking about why/what is going on with the truck, and reading I don't know how many hydraulic head threads and TMs, I'm thinking that the bad batch of fuel toasted the HH. It wasn't bad to begin with, but over the course of 3 months and lots of WMO, it wont idle hardly at all without out help after a short 20 mile cruise and couldn't even get it to 1700 RPM In 5th WOT.

 

[m-35tom]

i would agree. all these alternative fuels may run, but they need to be CLEAN. filtered down to microns, and then there may still be abrasive material left.

the only other possibility, and it is a long shot, is that the HH is 180° out. i only say this since it is a common problem when people have the HH out and try to reset things. the timing mark on the ip turns at crankshaft speed so comes up twice and only one is right. the only way to really verify this is with the front valve cover off so you can see that the valves for #1 have clearance when the mark is lined up.

 

[searls84]

I thought about I being 180 out, but I think it's a real long shot... The first time I pulled it I got the red tooth pointed towards the alignment mark and did not turn motor at all. So by my reasoning the position that I installed the first time would be the same position that it was able to be removed the second time, and the second time it was only one tooth off from being in the correct spot.

I believe we learned the hard way about filtering WMO BRFORE putting it in the tank! We were getting it from a neighbor who is a fire engine mechanic who also runs it in his deuce. He said the most of the time the oil was stil amber colored when it was drained out, so we figured that it couldn't be that dirty... WRONG!!! Oh well, you live you learn!

So now to find a Hydraulic Head... If anyone has one they would like to sell, I'm in the market!

 

[searls84]

So now a question on hydraulic heads. While searching for a replacement I'm coming across a few different part numbers, HD90101a, HD90100a and HD90100ar. All look the same as far as i can tell, and say they are for M35 trucks..What is the difference between them? Which is the one I need for an LDT-465-1c? Anyone got a clue?

 

[svd dragunov]

i always filter my oil no matter how "CLEAN" it.0
looks. you have the exact same engine as me, but unfortunately i do not have HH for sale. only ones ive seen recently are the chinese ones from a well known auction sight. from what i understand they work very well.
best of luck to you.

 

[searls84]

After some reading, I found the difference between the three model numbers. The HD90101a is the HH for an LDS motor, the HD90100a is the HH for the B,C,D,E code pumps. The HD90100aR is the same as the HD90100a, but as best I can tell the R stands for rebuilt. I saw the number for the G code pump in another thread, but the number escapes me right now, so if you do a search for it, it is out there.

Got the new parts coming in tomorrow; found a heck of a deal on complete injection pumps! It was cheaper to buy the whole pump than just the HH alone, so if anyone is wanting/needing an IP (minus the HH) ill have it posted for sale in the classifieds in the next few days.

 

[svd dragunov]

Got the new parts coming in tomorrow; found a heck of a deal on complete injection pumps! It was cheaper to buy the whole pump than just the HH alone, so if anyone is wanting/needing an IP (minus the HH) ill have it posted for sale in the classifieds in the next few days.

was that the one i linked you?