M4 Sherman being delivered on Monday!

[swiss]

Beautiful, will you be able to get it running again?

 

[juanprado]

M4a3e9

congrads on your new acquisition.

Last week I was at the WW2 museum in New Orleans at a BSA fundraiser and took these pics of a super rare M4A3E9.

Enjoy

 

[DoctorCheney223]

Just like m1010plowboy figured, the sandblaster is a former Marine and he can't wait to get his hands on it.

Here's another picture of the front and I'm trying to get video finished so we can upload it.

V/R
Ron M Cheney

 

[DoctorCheney223]

Do these picture help with determining which model of Sherman this is?

V/R
Ron M Cheney

 

[NDT]

I think it might be an A4. Need more pics of the engine area.

Edit: I count 79 shoes, an A4 had 83 shoes. So A3.

Edit 2: Now I believe A2 based on rear plate.

 

[85CUCVtom]

Came with a variety of engines- Chryslers were radials. NOT something I would want to work on. Ford was an 8 cyl, Cat even made a few multifuels for them.

Chrysler version: Five 251 cubic inch, flathead Dodge six cylinder truck engines [total 1253 cid]. The biggest thing was the design and development of the casting, that married everything, it must be huge, probably heavier than… but in a tank I guess, you care, at least not a whole lot. (30 cylinders!) There’s an awful lot of hand work on that, all the welded manifolding and stuff, and you’ll see that it has five, independent carburetors. It has five distributors. It has five vibration dampers on the front end of each crank shaft, and on the back, it has a big set of spur gears, each pinion having an overrunning clutch, so if you loose an engine, you don’t hold back the other four. [This particular engine was actually discovered in Argentina and restored by Chrysler.]

Here's a page with more Sherman motor pictures.

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/engines/engines.html

 

[85CUCVtom]

A link about the Chrysler Multibank.

http://sbiii.com/chrymult.html

 

[kcimb]

Does the 2600$ the sand blaster is charging cover disassembly?

 

[SD T16]

I'm pretty certain she is an A2.

Here is a video of the proper GM 6-71

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adEy5j4XiJk

And if you wanna see how this monster will move her along quite nicely, check out this video of a M4A1 refitted with the same engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVwFN1Tap7k&feature=related

SD

 

[wreckerman893]

My last unit had a Sherman that was a "range rescue" but therein lies the tale.
I'll change the names to protect the guilty parties but since the principal player is now deceased it is prob a moot point anyway.
It seems that a young 2nd Lt Smith in a National Guard Transportation Company got a mission to move three Shermans from Anniston Army Depot to a firing range where they would meet a fate worse than death.
Being a young and enthusiastic MV collector he was sickened to think that they would all be blown up by artillery or tank fire.
He enlisted the help of several accomplices (officer and enlisted) and a scheme was concocted.
They found another Sherman on a distant range and recovered it, cleaned and painted it to resemble one of the new target tanks and swapped it out.
They delivered the ringer and the other two ill-fated Shermans to the range and took "Unruly Julie" to the young Lt.'s farm where is sat for many years.
The tank was discovered by some military aviators at nearby Fort Rucker and it became a landmark and reference point for trainee pilots.
This made the Soldier nervous and he decided the tank needed a good home where it would be safe from the elements and vandalism (and maybe save him a trip to Fort Leavenworth).
When I knew him he had been promoted several times and and was the Unit Historian (in addition to his regular job). He and another member of the command (Maj. Malfunction) had become quite proficient at getting "gate guardian" vehicles for the unit. We had a halftrack with quad 50's, an M48 tank, a Cobra Attack Helicopter and a lot of small stuff in the unit museum.
A plan was concocted and Unruly Julie was moved to Birmingham, painted and somewhat restored and installed in a place of honor in front of the Drill Hall.
When the good Colonel passed away his family came to the unit to retrieve the tank and were informed that Julie was still property of the government and would stay where she was.
And that folks is proof that the truth is indeed stranger than fiction.

 

[steelypip]

Easy answer to the A2/A3 question: does it have a rear engine access door or not? If not, it's an A2. Yes, the dual-bank 6-71 is a really nice powerplant, but I bet there are a lot of parts made of pure unobtanium. It would, however, positively be a Marine machine, as I think only USMC got the A2 (because of shipboard concerns with gasoline and flammability).

I could immediately tell it wasn't an A4 because of the bogie spacing. The extra hull length is a dead giveaway. It's just as well, because the Chrysler multibank is the heaviest, least powerful, and hardest to work on of the bunch. They were all lend-lease as I understand it because the US Army didn't want the things.

It has the sharp-nosed diff housing (late) and VVSS with the high flotation end link mod (fairly late, or a depot job).

The Ford GAA is a great engine. The GM 6046 is a great engine. But there were a lot more GAAs made, and I bet it's a lot easier to rustle up a complete GAA than it is to find a complete GM 6046. That said, you only need 500 HP, so if you're having trouble hunting something down, just build a four-bolt-main big block Chevy and call it done, though you'd need a reducer box somewhere. The big block would be so much smaller and lighter than any other Sherman engine that there should be room for the reduction box in the engine compartment.

I really think this is a postwar rebuild of an A2 or an A3, or it's an oddity in being a M4A3(75)W or M4A2(75)W with hull applique armor over the dry stowage areas. The location and amount of applique armor really makes me think of a dry-stowage Sherman, but that's definitely a late (D78461) high-bustle turret with (I think) loader hatch and commander's vision cupola.

Hence my assumption that it's a postwar rebuild - they commonly put the (much better) late turrets on early hulls in the late 40s/early50s during the contractor and arsenal rebuilds. You'll know when you get a good look inside - if it has all the ammo storage down low in the hull in groups of six and four, and the water tanks are sealed up or removed, you have the postwar ammo racks. There should also be a data plate inside announcing a rebuild by Rock Island Arsenal, Kellogg Brown, or Bowen McLaughlin if nobody carried it off. There will also be hull numbers stamped a lot of places - try the front and rear towbar rings, near the rear corners of the hull, and inside near where the dataplate goes. You will probably need a wire brush - I bet there's a lot of paint on it.

To really nail it down we need higher res pics of the back of the tank - particularly down low around the exhaust pipe and engine access door area and the view down to the rear deck from on top of the turret.

Here is the best and most detailed page I've seen on identifying Shermans:
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html

M4A2 page:
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/sherman_types/m4a2/m4a2.html

M4A3 page:
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/sherman_types/m4a3/m4a3.html

Late M4A3 page:
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a375w/m4a3_75w.html

Turret ID page:
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/turret_types/75mm_turrets.html

Postwar rebuilds:
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/m4a3e4/m4a3e4.html
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/mdap/mdap_tanks.html

 

[Another Ahab]

congrads on your new acquisition.

Last week I was at the WW2 museum in New Orleans at a BSA fundraiser and took these pics of a super rare M4A3E9.

Enjoy

Looks like Rubber Tracks; interesting that wasn't typical was it?

My uncle (Tank Commander, Patton's Third Army), said they loaded all their machines with sand bags also; some even faced them with concrete if they could get it (yankee ingenuity). Said the MkV's and MkVi's they were up against fielded the German 88's: about which he mentioned the expression "like a hot knife through butter". But he said most of the action was street fighting, village-to-village (not open field), where the Sherman's were much nimbler (compared to the hulking MkV's and VI's). It took brass ones to go up against the Panzers in those Shermans, and to their credit, they did.

 

[DoctorCheney223]

Steelypip,

I followed those links and the A2 model appears to be what I have. One thing that the A2 link stated was that only the Marine Corps used these. The hull has remnants of "penny nails" that were welded on top of the hull and hatches. The previous owner stated that the nails were welded on to keep the Japanese off the vehicle AND to prevent satchel charges that were thrown on top of the hull to have the full affect. The nails were approximately 5"-6" tall and the explosives were high enough to not cause significant damage.

Here is the video I mentioned that my friend was shooting for me. He's a producer for Langley Productions (COPS) and got to the property before I did when I told him the Sherman was on the way.

http://youtu.be/qpXatMdjbi8

 

[hwcurtice]

Great vid!

 

[steelypip]

And the video nails it down for us. It's an A3. Or at least the lower hull is A3. Here's your proof:


See those exhaust stacks and the door. That's A3.

Here's another A3 for comparison:


And here's an A2:

See, no door and completely different exhaust.

Fun video, btw, but it was so artsy it was hard to get the one freeze-frame to tell the story.

 

[SD T16]

Good spot Steelypip! I guessed A2 prior to the video because I could not spot the engine cover support tabs that stick up to make it an A3. Perhaps they were shot off or just hidden in the low quality pictures. Thats another way to tell.

Either way, there is a lot of work ahead of you Ron!!..... But there are a lot of people out there willing to share information.

Cheers

SD

 

[Artillerydan]

You have entered the world of "no haggle buying"...... meaning.... There is no haggling, you just buy it. (there are some exceptions)

Anything WWII armor is not easy to find, so when you find G104 parts you just need to buy it, because some of it, there is no more and when its available you buy it or someone else will. There are MANY more people working on Sherman's than M24 Chaffee's. I Know of 5 other M24 restorations besides mine going on right now, most in Europe. When something good comes available the first one of us to find it buys it, because hesitation will get you nowhere. Figure on spending 100K at the least, based upon what i can see. I am sure your looking at being a live gun so that pushes that number up a bit. Mine is just as bad as yours minus the holes. My number is around that and I have not even begun to put it back together yet. Hopefully most everything is there just bent, broken or rusty. Its the missing stuff that kills you.

But enough of the challenge (bad). You will have the best time working on that, The group of guys that have parts and tanks are a great group and very willing to help. Very detail oriented. The G503.com armor section will be of great help also the G104 yahoo group has alot of people that can answer detail questions for you. Brent Mullins, David Yammula, and a few others. PM me for some other names and sources.

 

[insanejecke]

Nice maybe one day I will join the Tank in my yard club one day

 

[Another Ahab]

Nice maybe one day I will join the Tank in my yard club one day

Yeah, a little armor by the front door has got a lawn gnome beat hands down!

 

[o1951]

And if the turret works, mighty handy. Keep rif-raf, thieves, evil doers, etc. away