My engine is broke?

[GUNNUT in Iowa]

Sorry about the long topic. I think my Mule engine is broke and I don’t know where to start.
Some background information:
It is a 1968 A5 that has been converted to electric start with no charging system. There are no other modifications.
I replaced the hour meter and muffler. When I purchased it, the wires had been cut to the meter and it was full of rust. The new meter shows less than two hours. I have run one tank of gasoline through it since I purchased it in August of 2012. My first tank of gas was from the airport, as that is the only place I could find leaded gas. I use it for parades. It is stored inside. It leaks oil from both shift shaft seals. They are on order from NAPA.
The symptoms:
This Summer while as I was backing it out of the garage, I thought the motor suddenly became extra “loud”. I can’t say exactly why I think this, but it just sounded louder. Of course, I checked the oil and gave it a good look see. I did not see anything out of the ordinary.
Last month during a parade it “hiccupped” going up a slight hill. It ran fine for the rest of the parade route – maybe one half mile and 30 minutes. When I got it back to the garage, it would not start the next day. I checked the gas. Empty. I used the lawnmower gas can and put less than a gallon of gas in the tank. It started fine and I ran it for 15 minutes that day. The inside of the tank looks VERY good – no rust.
I started it last Saturday and backed it out of the garage. It is getting cold here and I used the choke. I ran it for maybe 45 seconds or one minute to get it out of the garage. Just before I shut it off, I heard a “noise” from the engine. It literally happened just as I shut it off. One half hour later I wanted to put it back in the garage. It would not start.
It sounded odd as it was cranking. Almost like the battery was low. I pushed it back into the garage and put the charger on the battery. When the battery was charged, I tried to start it. It cranked fine, but would not start. I added a little more gas. No joy. Perhaps I am dreaming, but I think I see “extra” oil on the floor under the left hand cylinder. There is also oil in that area of the engine with drips on the exhaust pipe. I am pretty sure this oil has not been there before, as I would have noticed an oil burning smell during the parades.
Back in my drag racing days, I rebuild engines and transmissions. I don’t even change my own oil now. Anybody got any suggestions? Pull the plugs and run a compression check? Drain the oil and look for engine parts? Prime the carb and crank until it starts?

 

[phil2968]

Can you make a video of you trying to start it?

 

[bigbird1]

Spray some carb cleaner in the air cleaner and see if it will fire, if not check for spark and then compression test. You need Compression , Fuel and Spark . Now just need to find what part you don't have.

 

[clinto]

First, check the oil level and make sure the crankcase isn't full of gas. Mule fuel pumps have a reputation for rupturing the seal inside the fuel pump and allowing the engine to fill up with gas.

Next, if it were me, I'd pull one plug at a time and see if it has spark when turning over. If not, it's a pretty simple system, with a magneto. If it has spark, then I'd verify fuel pressure.

If it has one or neither, there's your problem, if it has both then either the sparks are happening at the wrong time or the carb is messed up.


If you don't want to mess with it, send it down here! I love mules.

 

[doghead]

Change your spark plugs.

The hiccup was an indication that you may have fouled one.

 

[kipman]

If you need one, I have a NOS engine that may work. Hope yours is a simple repair.

 

[GUNNUT in Iowa]

Started at the spark plugs. After reading on another forum, I thought I might have difficulty removing the plug wire from the plug and I was preparing to build a "special" wrench. No problem getting the wire off the plug. Did a little research to find the plugs are to be tightened at 275 - 300 inch/pounds. Mine - not so tight. I was able to remove them with my fingers. I believe that might lead to a wee bit of a compression issue.

Plugs smelled like gas so I think my fuel pump is OK. In fact I would say the engine is flooded. The lady at O'reilly's wanted to know what the plugs were out of, as she had never seen anything like them. I ordered four new ones for a little over $7 each. They should be here Wednesday.

Difficult for me to check the spark by myself. Can't reach the starter button and observe the plug wire at the same time. Back in the day, when I was faster than electricity, I might have had a chance - not so much now. :>)

I am feeling much better about the engine now. I will keep you informed.

 

[emmado22]

smell your oil for gas. If you smell gas in the oil, that means ethanol has eaten the rubber, and now your fuel pump is dumping gas into the crankcase. Not good at all.

 

[o1951]

You can clear fouled plugs by heating the tip insulator with a propane torch.

 

[GUNNUT in Iowa]

smell your oil for gas. If you smell gas in the oil, that means ethanol has eaten the rubber, and now your fuel pump is dumping gas into the crankcase. Not good at all.

Been there - done that. Oil smells like oil.

I use ethanol in my vehicles, but they aren't 45 years old. I buy the gas at the airport because they have leaded fuel. I guess I did not ask, but I believe it is not ethanol. At least the pump does not say "ethanol".

I purchased it from the pilot of the P-51 Mustang know as the "Gunfighter" in Council Bluffs, IA. I believe they only used avgas in it.

 

[Thunder in NWOR]

When mine starts to act up, first thing I do is clean the 'sediment bulb'......

 

[bigbird1]

Airport gas is one hundred low lead , most farmers use 90+ in old tractors or you can add a few oz of Dextron oil to each tank for upper lube. No need to pay extra for aircraft fuel

 

[GUNNUT in Iowa]

Airport gas is one hundred low lead , most farmers use 90+ in old tractors or you can add a few oz of Dextron oil to each tank for upper lube. No need to pay extra for aircraft fuel

I assume "one hundred" means 100 octane?
Is "low lead" a little better than unleaded?
If I use 90+ octane (non-ethanol), how much Dextron (transmission fluid?) should I use per gallon?

 

[bigbird1]

I assume "one hundred" means 100 octane?
Is "low lead" a little better than unleaded?
If I use 90+ octane (non-ethanol), how much Dextron (transmission fluid?) should I use per gallon?

Lead was used for longer valve life and octane booster, if you run premium gas and a cap full of dextron per gallon you should be fine. This is a common practice used in antique tractors with old engines. Dextron is high is detergents and provides some valve lube.

 

[GUNNUT in Iowa]

The latest and greatest on my mule engine.
Checked for spark before installing new plugs. Engine turns over fine without plugs installed. Gap new plugs to .030 and install to 275 - 300 inch pounds; more or less.
Choke engine, as it is cold here. Engine fires right off. After perhaps 5 seconds, I am contemplating pushing the choke in. The engine starts to "labor". It "labors" for a little more than 5 seconds while I try to confirm what I am hearing. Engine goes "bang" and I mean a mechanical "bang" not an explosives "bang". Engine dies. Engine does not crank with sufficient speed on attempt to restart.
I have to move some furniture.
I return in about one hour. Pull the plugs and remove the blower fan drive belt. Attempt to turn over the engine with a socket. No joy. At first I can turn the crankshaft with a socket perhaps 1/8th of a revolution in each direction. Now I can't turn the crankshaft in either direction.
I've got a dollar that says I am needing to disassemble the engine - and then I most likely will need more dollars after that.
Any suggestions?
Is it better to buy a new 2A042 generator engine and swap the applicable parts?
or just tear this one down and make a parts list?
If I pull the crankcase oil pan, will I know any more than I do now?

 

[o1951]

".

If I pull the crankcase oil pan, will I know any more than I do now?

Yes. Look for an oil issue - low/ no oil pressure. Pulling pan and rod/main bearing caps will give you a good idea if it is economically feasible to rebuild, or cheaper to buy another engine.

 

[emmado22]

genset engines are cheap. A few hours to swap the mule engine specific parts, and no worries for years.

 

[GUNNUT in Iowa]

Some that frequent another forum may notice this is pretty much a duplicate of another thread I have going "over there". I recognize some of the some folks here and there, but I suspect some are unaware of the other forum. Just trying to throw a larger net. Hope that is OK.

Anyway back on topic.

Drained the oil this morning. Magnetic oil pan plug = GOOD. Metal on magnetic oil pan plug = VERY BAD!

Removed the canister oil filter. Someone has gone to a great effort to paint the inside with a "metal flake" 30W. Oh, No!

I have been doing my research on the change-over from a gen set engine. I understand the advantage of the spin-on oil filter adapter from the gen set engine. I don't use my Mule for "crashing through the trees". I am more of a military collector kind of guy. I am at odds on the ease of the spin on oil filter (and the availability of the filters) vs. the originality of the canister filter. Is it stupid to keep the old, hard ways in order to preserve originality? and should I buy a case of filters in order to have a life-time supply?

 

[o1951]

Don't buy anything until you find out if your engine is repairable.
You say you rebuilt Engines & trans in past. You KNOW metal on drain plug and filter full of metal flake means serious damage, and usually $$$.
Follow my post 16 - If you have an air wrench, it will go fast. From what you have reported, I am thinking possible wiped crank.
Post #6 says he has a NOS engine. If yours needs lotta work, see what he has to offer.

 

[emmado22]

At some point the engine you currently have is uneconomical to repair. New engine with zero problems or hours is $650 or so, some hours of labor swapping mule parts to the stripped genset engine (free) and you can have a brand new, trouble free/worry free engine.

Or you can try to find the problem on the existing engine, fix it, and hope that the problem is not deeper than what you find, or that your fix is OK for now, and happens again or something else happens.

If it was my mule. I'd get a new engine, and have a weekend father/son project swapping out the engine, and that peace of mind knowing something else may not be lurking in the crankcase of the bad engine. I'd even keep the bad engine for a parts donor or the next owner.


As for the spin on filter adapter, I currently have the canister on my mule, and have the adapter in my Mule spare parts box. One day I will get around to swapping it out, but will keep the canister if I ever go to sell it.

I know if I buy a MV, I like it to be in unmolested shape. I try to make all my mods I do on my MV's easily "undone". No welding/cutting ever and no drilling holes (if I can help it), and do only bolt on mods only that way I can return everything to original condition. I have added an electric start and a repro Chrysler TOW alternator/mount on my mule, but have all the pull start components on the shelf, and could easily convert it back to original if I wanted, and you'd never know it was ever electrified. My personal belief is that I'd rather run my MV's than spend time fixing them and I like the "bolt on" mods that are easily removable to restore to original condition.

Keep us posted with what route you take.