Oil pressure at start up questions

[acme66]

With what we plan to do with our 923 it will get started 10-20 times a day. I hate, HATE the fact that for the first 5-10 seconds or so there is no oil pressure. It makes me cringe every time I start it because you can hear the sound change when the motor starts oiling. I have been looking into ways to pre-oil and it looks from the routing that it would be simple to tap in at the pan, go to a 24v pump, even a diesel transfer pump, and back into the oil lines. I am more worried about having some oil rather than pressure, I have great oil pressure when running. In the course of doing research I discovered that a kit for this already exists where they tap into the oil pan drain plug and the system is self contained. Looks to be in the $250-$300 range, not far off what I thought I could build my own for. I would be very curious to hear from anyone who bought or built a system like this, what you used and if it was everything you thought it would be. At the same time, during the same research I came up with people who converted to spin on oil filters and it was mentioned that doing that developed oil pressure 'instantly'. Now a question for those who converted to spin on, how much difference did it really make? If it is faster, why? Are the filters smaller, does the housing contain a check valve, what makes it faster? What spin on did you use (part numbers are better) Thoughts on if it is even worth doing? I am also looking into adding the duel fuel line conversion and while that is a seperate issue I will tackle at a later date I would like to know your opinions on that change if you have one as well.
1984 m923a1

Ken

EDIT: Ok I had my prices way wrong on the pre-lube kit it would be at least double what I said so I would be back to building one. Building one the $250 price estimate is still about right, maybe less.

 

[Floridianson]

10 to 20 leave it running just raise the Idle when not driving.

 

[acme66]

Can't. We would have to talk over the noise and even with changing the exhaust to a rear dump, it is just too fumey for tourists in the hot summer time.

 

[Another Ahab]

Good thread, thanks Acme66.

My interest relates to the same topic, but in regard to the M35a2.

I'll just listen in; Subscribed.

 

[swbradley1]

Scar59 sells the spin on oil filter kit.

As for the noise maybe you would want to get an M923A2 with the 6CTA in it. Talk about quiet. I thought the heater fan was running when I started it the first time.

 

[acme66]

Really? I thought those things were much louder, maybe that is the deuce I am thinking of. I still have my fumes issue but that is 100% dependent on weather and wind direction so it isn't always going to be an issue. I am already asking them to rough it by riding in the back on bus seats, I foresee complaints if it is "stinky" too.

Ken

 

[juanprado]

I converted to a spin on and "feel" the engine gets to pressure faster. Maybe the design with the spring and valve "hold" the pressure and force the oil down the tube of the spin on assembly vs a totally open cartridge? I am not an engineer by any means but I betcha the tech lines for Baldwin, hastings, or wix can give you the real low down since they make both the spin on & cartridge filters and sell the adapter.

There has to be good engineering reason as to why because cartridge filters are all but extinct for oil and went the way of the floppy disc.

I understood the military went with the cartridge in the 80's even though it was obsolete then because the the previous M800's used it and to simplify one less part needed.

Many have reported the wix spin on is not correct.

I bought the baldwin pre 1968 Cummings nhc250 which is a reboxed hastings from B line filters in Odessa, Tx for $69 with the gaskets and bolt.

The spin on conversion is a hastings KF26 or a Baldwin OB1368. Filter is a napa 1970 , 1970xe, 1970xd. Choose your price and filtering desired. For wix add 5 in front of the part number.

Filter is just slightly smaller than the old assembly. Maybe 1 qt less oil but it takes 7 gallons. Definitely worth it and much easier to change and less mess than the canister which can leak if the gasket is not changed or pinched.

 

[swbradley1]

Really? I thought those things were much louder, maybe that is the deuce I am thinking of.
Ken

I have a 250 and had another SS member's A2 at the farm and there is no comparing them.

 

[mattyboy]

i have a 931a2 with the 6cta it is quieter than my sterling rolloff truck with a 5.9 cummins in it i would leave truck running. i would worry more about havi ng to replace a starter!! it sounds like you dont have the truck go find one and hear it in person.

 

[dmetalmiki]

I have posts relating to my way of dealing with that problem completely. Briefly. (a)From the Sump plug to 24 volt (ex tailgate) lift (or fork truck) hydraulic pump. (B)One way valve. (C) Connector, (iether) straight into the oil filter can, (or (C)) Oil filter gallery. This results in FULL engine oil pressure at start up. And that is well mind pleasing. (i will in fact find see if I can find pa link to my demonstration). http://youtu.be/9Gt6Y873VMg

 

[FullSpecial]

Large gensets have such kits. Might look at that angle too.

 

[Another Ahab]

Gets it done! Thanks dmetalmiki.

Your shorthand above is greatly appreciated, but it's a little bit brief. Any chance you could maybe spell it out a little more completely/ succinctly (part numbers, photos, etc)?

 

[Another Ahab]

Large gensets have such kits. Might look at that angle too.

Can they be purchased as a kit? Got a source by any chance?

 

[acme66]

My truck:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?105710-Nelson-Off-Road-Tours-Build-Thread/page7

I was mistaken in thinking the A2 was louder at idle. Lets move on. Replacing my 1 with a 2 is not a practical solution to solving my pre-lube question. Both trucks (all trucks) are going to be too loud as no one is going to spend quality family time learning to gold pan with motor of any size roaring away on high idle 20 feet away. Then there is the fumes... Regardless, the truck has to be shut off multiple times a day to do the job I built it to do. If the starter motor is some sort of weak spot I will have to carry parts or spares, that is just the way it is going to be. Dragging the topic back around on track, my question on pre-lube was simply if any had hand built a system, what they liked/disliked or using one of the well established industrial brands. If not, no big deal. I will look into building my own and post what I did if I like it. The filter question is an interesting and I wonder if it is as simple (potentially) as installing big high volume check valve so the filters can't drain back. Put in a bypass for change time. Sort of like a remote oil tank for race cars, they are big enough. If I had oil pressure in say 3 seconds I could live with that.

Ken

 

[dmetalmiki]

start up pressure

Gets it done! Thanks dmetalmiki.

Your shorthand above is greatly appreciated, but it's a little bit brief. Any chance you could maybe spell it out a little more completely/ succinctly (part numbers, photos, etc)?

Well I had pictures on s.s. But this is not my regular computer, so no photo log. But I used the sump plug. (with a union connector, which is removed for oil changing, then 3/4" bor high pressure oil pie to a Ex-Forktruck hydraulic lift pump. , thence to a one way valve. , and onward to the oil gallery of the oil filters. (there is a plug bettween (and just under)) the two upside down waste of spaces!. I can not find my way back to the old S.S. photo gallery where the pictures used to be. Just as an aside..my Old ex-Army Kraz (12 ltr V8 diesel) had an oil filtering centrifuge oil filter mounted as standard! (url removed here(posted in next reply pertains to that reply)) only.

 

[acme66]

dmetalmiki, that is awesome, exactly what I am talking about building. Where did you tap in to get your oil? (edit: didn't see your reply) I was trying to decide of I could grab an external feed and dump it back in, sort of like a remote oil cooler but a pump instead. Do you ever have starvation issues? If it sits for a long period of time does your pump drain back, ahh but that is what the one way valve is for. Wow, if you could tap a feed line to the filter and then pump it back in through the filter this could be a much simpler project than I am making it in my head. I will have to sweep the snow and untarp the hood tonight to get in and have a peak. Thank you.

Ken

 

[zout]

Seeing as your in Montana and mentioning this - nearly all oil now its viscosity is not the issue - what is the issue is what is remaining on internal engine parts for those startups - there are good additives that give a high resistance to nearly eliminate that metal to metal contact. There is still a film there - but not after a couple wacks of good rpms on the big dog engine. The oil does get thicker in that cold and below freezing temps but not as bad as what it use to be - I have seen oil filters blown off when drivers started them up and wacked on the throttle pedal. Just get a good additive for them start up.

Oil heaters are on the market as well as coolant heaters - but you said you start it up quite a few times a day.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Gets it done! Thanks dmetalmiki.

Your shorthand above is greatly appreciated, but it's a little bit brief. Any chance you could maybe spell it out a little more completely/ succinctly (part numbers, photos, etc)?

All the other pictures were on the old photo gallery (how does one getthose..?) but This I found on the new in my gallery , and is a (was) a "quick and imediate) salution untill I found the used parts at reasnable cost. Like a Pump £25. Piping and one way valve £20, Fittings £15. so a really cost effective way to go. and most satisfying. Those shrtened filters attained instant pressure as well though..but was a tempory fix.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=382052&d=1265755833

 

[acme66]

We really only use it in the summer, it is sort of hibernating now. I will add researching additives to my list of things to do on this.

Ken

 

[FullSpecial]

Can they be purchased as a kit? Got a source by any chance?

Sorry Ahab, never really gave it a second thought till this thread. Ones I saw were locomotive sized.