Oil pressure at start up questions

[acme66]

What if we approach this another way. What about a tank, pressurized from normal engine oil pressure separated from the system with a 24v solenoid and a in-flow one way valve. When you go to start the solenoid dumps and it shoots a measured volume of oil through the system. Whenever the starter is engaged the solenoid is open. A separate one way valve to refill from engine pressure. I see that idea as working and not being a massive project to build. Be nice of the solenoid was on a timer, say open for 15 seconds after trigger. Sounds more compact with less opportunity for failure. I suppose even a good one way valve would leak down slowly but most of the time it would be there. I envision something the size of a fire extinguisher mounted to the firewall near where the ether sits. Just one line ported into the motor leading to the 2 valve manifold at the base of the tank.

Ken

 

[Another Ahab]

Sorry Ahab, never really gave it a second thought till this thread. Ones I saw were locomotive sized.

Well, I could tow it all behind the Deuce in a trailer (or two)…but maybe that's not the best solution to this issue right here...

You're a good man for the reply, though. Thanks!

 

[Another Ahab]

Nuts. Can't make this go away. Oh, WELL...

Please disregard.

 

[Another Ahab]

What if we approach this another way. What about a tank, pressurized from normal engine oil pressure separated from the system with a 24v solenoid and a in-flow one way valve. When you go to start the solenoid dumps and it shoots a measured volume of oil through the system. Whenever the starter is engaged the solenoid is open. A separate one way valve to refill from engine pressure. I see that idea as working and not being a massive project to build. Be nice of the solenoid was on a timer, say open for 15 seconds after trigger. Sounds more compact with less opportunity for failure. I suppose even a good one way valve would leak down slowly but most of the time it would be there. I envision something the size of a fire extinguisher mounted to the firewall near where the ether sits. Just one line ported into the motor leading to the 2 valve manifold at the base of the tank.

Ken

Your engineering mind is working wide-open, acme66, impressive!

Guessing that the Big Sky Country you're in lends unbridled creative power to a good mind.

I'm all over any idea that works, hoping that whatever it is, that my simple pedestrian mind can follow it, and install it. Think this is simple enough?

 

[Another Ahab]

Sorry Ahab, never really gave it a second thought till this thread. Ones I saw were locomotive sized.

Well, I could tow it all behind the Deuce in a trailer (or two)…but maybe that's not the best solution to this issue right here… thanks though!

 

[acme66]

Hey the tanks already exist in aircraft hydraulic systems and can be bought surplus in a lot of places. However I spent A LOT of time reading up on this and other than aircraft, large heavy equipment motors, big boats and big gen sets that start yearly or less it just isn't common to employ a prelube system. I would think there would be a huge number of OTR guys running them but I can't find them. I can't even seem to locate independent consumer reports type testing. It is just horror stories from companies selling them, anecdotal evidence from forums like this and engine manufactures either pushing their own stuff or tersely stating their equipment is fine as is. I think if it was a real big deal you would see it common on OTR trucks. Looks like just good filters and stay on the oil changes remains the best bet. I STILL hate when the motor quiets down after the pressure hits but I guess I will get used to it. If anything I think an aircraft hydraulic oil accumulator might be a simple surplus way to go.

Ken

 

[Another Ahab]

Hey the tanks already exist in aircraft hydraulic systems and can be bought surplus in a lot of places. However I spent A LOT of time reading up on this and other than aircraft, large heavy equipment motors, big boats and big gen sets that start yearly or less it just isn't common to employ a prelube system. I would think there would be a huge number of OTR guys running them but I can't find them. I can't even seem to locate independent consumer reports type testing. It is just horror stories from companies selling them, anecdotal evidence from forums like this and engine manufactures either pushing their own stuff or tersely stating their equipment is fine as is. I think if it was a real big deal you would see it common on OTR trucks. Looks like just good filters and stay on the oil changes remains the best bet. I STILL hate when the motor quiets down after the pressure hits but I guess I will get used to it. If anything I think an aircraft hydraulic oil accumulator might be a simple surplus way to go.

Ken

Maybe you're right. Just leaving well enough alone might not be a bad idea at all.

It is easy to start in on the road of over-analyzing details.

But that's the beauty of forums, you never know who's going to weigh-in with an idea that just makes a whole lot of sense (that you never considered before).

 

[Rifleman]

Acme66, Moroso racing makes a 3 QT remote pressurized air over oil accumulator system. The part number 23900, or the HD one is part number 23902, i think this is just what your looking for. I use to run this same set up on my race car, i mounted a 12 volt electric solenoid valve on it that i would turn on and off with a switch mounted on my dash.

With the switch i would just turn off the solenoid valve before i shut down the engine thus holding oil in the accumulator at engine oil pressure of say 40 PSI. Then before start up i would just turn the solenoid valve on and the tank pressurized at 40 PSI would pump those 3 QT. of oil into the engine so it had full oil pressure before and during start up.

This system is used in race cars so that when you drove the car into a hard turn and uncovered the oil pump pickup. The oil stored in the accumulator would automatically pump oil into the engine to keep oil pressure in the engine until the pump pickup was covered back up by oil. Then once the pick up was covered up again the engine oil pressure would refill the accumulator to wait until the pick up was uncovered again.

Cost for the Moroso P/N 23900 from Jegs racing with free shipping is 199 bucks, but you will need to replace their ball valve* with a 24 volt electric solenoid valve and a switch to turn it on and off. Oh, you will also need a few feet of AN -12 hose and -12 hose ends too. All in all with the solenoid valve, accumulator tank, hose and fittings you should be into this for right around 300 to 350 bucks.

One more point, when you do an oil change your going to need 3 more QT. of oil to do a complete change.

*Please note, Moroso uses red lock tight on the threads of this ball valve, so removing it from the accumulator end cap to replace it with a solenoid valve can be a BIG PAIN in the butt.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13600