1971 deuce uneven power performance

[Floridianson]

It might seem silly to you, but to a mechanic it is a great diagnostic tool.

Then it would seem a good mechanic would put it on the finals so he could test both intank and IP lift pump. Then when the test is done remove the Gages. The youngs seem to over think things that realy are quite simple.

 

[Mud Hugger]

I agree with your edit. I don't have a tech manual to know what pressures are suppose to be when and where on these multifuels. I greatly apprieciated yours and everybody's help and inputs. Even the greatest mechanics need help once in awhile . My knowledge on these systems is growing. THANKYOU tremendously.

 

[Mud Hugger]

THANKYOU. Ya I'm going to have buy a tech manual for the engine. Thats my biggest road block, for now you good ol boys do very good at informing me!! Keep it comin!

 

[Floridianson]

Hay RustyStud with all the new filtering you have been putting on what is your high idle pressure on the fianal?

 

[rustystud]

Hay RustyStud with all the new filtering you have been putting on what is your high idle pressure on the fianal?

60psi .

 

[rustystud]

Then it would seem a good mechanic would put it on the finals so he could test both intank and IP lift pump. Then when the test is done remove the Gages. The youngs seem to over think things that realy are quite simple.

Who are you calling young? I've been a diesel mechanic for over 34 years now. ASE master certified. What about you ? As far as using just one gauge at the secondary filter you do not know if your tank pump is working. I know as mine was not working for over a year after I bought it, but my final pressure was over 60 psi at 2000 rpm. Started just fine too, even in winter !
As far as being a good mechanic goes, before I was hired on at my current job of 22 years I had to pass some tests. First was an entrance application which was over 20 pages long, listing all my references and experiences. Then those chosen from this list where "hands-on" tested. Do you know how to primary time a diesel engine ? Show me. That sort of stuff. From that list the chosen had a written test to take. The "ASE" tests. From that the top 10 where given a interview by a panel of 4 . In total the testing took over 3 weeks. Out of 620 applicants I was number 1. So maybe I'm not a terrible mechanic.

 

[Floridianson]

If you need a peice of paper to tell you who you are then I can't help you. Never called you a bad mechanic but now I see that thread about you reading all the Deuce threads was more that that. If you need a gage on your tank to tell you that your intank is working no problem I just said I find it silly and as per the TM I posted when poor performance is suspect put a gage on the fianals and check intank with motor off then start and check running pressures. Myself I know that the intank pump is working because I turn on my intank before I start the engine and open the drain on the filters to expell any water. Yes you can guess if it's working it spits out with force.

 

[rustystud]

If you need a peice of paper to tell you who you are then I can't help you. Never called you a bad mechanic but now I see that thread about you reading all the Deuce threads was more that that. If you need a gage on your tank to tell you that your intank is working no problem I just said I find it silly and as per the TM I posted when poor performance is suspect put a gage on the fianals and check intank with motor off then start and check running pressures. Myself I know that the intank pump is working because I turn on my intank before I start the engine and open the drain on the filters to expell any water. Yes you can guess if it's working it spits out with force.

I prefer not to get spit on . As far as a piece of paper telling me what I am where does that come from ? I'm telling you about your reference of being a YOUNG and maybe not so good mechanic. Reread your post . I know what I am and the years of experience I have. To prove it, here are some pictures of where I work. The first is some coworkers and me, I'm the YOUNG one on the left. The second is the engine I was working on today. The next four are of the shop, one of seven at the agency. We have over 1400 busses. I had brought my camera to work since the middle guy was retiring, a good friend. So Floridianson what is your experience ? besides so many posts to this site ? Also what is that reference about my reading of all the deuce posts about ?
I could not make heads or tails out of it, correct grammar is a good thing .

 

[rustystud]

The is one thing that really bugs me about this site and since these last posts brings it up I'm going to say something about it. I know the moderator will probably remove it but here goes. In the real world real things happen to our equipment that the TM's never mention or the advice is out dated or impractical since they where printed over 30 years ago. So in this present age those of us who love these old military trucks try and keep them running as best we can with the limited resources available to us. There are some who only know what the TM's say and have no real world experience as a mechanic and the modern tools and parts available to us, but they are the first to say that what you have done to fix a problem is wrong and the TM says this or that about what you did or didn't do. So when this happens I ask what is your experience or what qualifies you to make such a statement ? I know most of the people who frequent this site are not mechanics by trade, that does not make what they say irrelevant. There are plenty of really intelligent guys on this site. Take gringletaube (Gerhard) . He is not a mechanic by trade, but he is one of the most knowledgeable persons I have meet ( over the internet, not in person). Also peashooter (Aaron) who is a great fabricator. So when I say what qualifies you to say what you did, I want concrete evidence backing up your statement, not "well that's what the TM's say " . Also when they go after my qualifications I will plainly tell them, and when you try and disparage me ie: " if you need a piece of paper to tell you who you are then I can't help you" , I will respond and demand a answer "who are you" and "what qualifications do you have to say what you said to me ?" This site has a grading system by how many posts you have made. You can be a "general" and therefor demand great respect about your opinion, but in reality your nothing more then a pimply faced kid with no real world experience about what your talking about. Just a kid who just likes to post on web sites. There are many "privates" also on this site, who have been in the military, have years of practical experience, but there opinion is disregarded . I have seen this as I HAVE read all the deuce posts including the deuce mods, now also all the generator posts. I work swing shift and it's either watch the boob tube or go online and learn about my favorite hobby when I get home.
So there is my rant. Moderators you can delete if you want, but I believe I have a valid point.

 

[Floridianson]

Yes you have a valid point and no I hope the mods do not deleat your or any threads.

 

[rustystud]

Yes you have a valid point and no I hope the mods do not deleat your or any threads.

Thank you, it just got old being dismissed because I do not have a high post number. I never posted for the first 2 years on this site as I wanted to read the posts to see what was going on, and to glean what knowledge that was out there. I can tell you there is plenty of information that you will not find in any TM. Especially now that the deuce parts line is getting thinner and thinner. People are coming up with unique and interesting ideas to fix some very vexing problems.

 

[Mud Hugger]

Hey you two, here's more of the situation that I'm dealing with. I installed the new pump today. Plug is a little different style than the original but works. I was able to use the oil psi guage and have around 5psi with switch on, 35 psi at low idle, and 70-75 at high idle. Seems to rev up better than before. I have not bypassed the FDC yet, I want to get EGT guage mounted before that. Do most put a weld on bung on downpipe for prop location? I had my drill and 1/8 pipe tap on hand and went under hood and wast sure where in the manifold I should drill and tap. So which is best place on the multifuels to put pyro?

 

[Jeepsinker]

It needs to be pre- turbo for good useful readings. Put it just above the turbo in the outlet of the rear manifold set.

 

[welldigger]

Hey you two, here's more of the situation that I'm dealing with. I installed the new pump today. Plug is a little different style than the original but works. I was able to use the oil psi guage and have around 5psi with switch on, 35 psi at low idle, and 70-75 at high idle. Seems to rev up better than before. I have not bypassed the FDC yet, I want to get EGT guage mounted before that. Do most put a weld on bung on downpipe for prop location? I had my drill and 1/8 pipe tap on hand and went under hood and wast sure where in the manifold I should drill and tap. So which is best place on the multifuels to put pyro?

Remove the turbo before you drill and tap the manifold.

 

[rustystud]

Remove the turbo before you drill and tap the manifold.

If your real careful you can do it without removing the turbo. With the engine running ,drill out the hole. Then stop the engine. Apply a heavy grease on the tap, then you can carefully tap out the hole. I would tap almost all the way in , remove and clean the tap, then regrease it and finish taping out the hole. After the hole is taped, start the engine up again to blow out anything left in the threads. This is how I did mine and it works fine.

 

[doghead]

Let's not forget that TMs are a very important "base line" for information, with or without experience.

Also, for those that seem to be "anti-TM", we have no idea if a member has experience or has read the basic info from the TMs, when they ask for help(unless they state that in their threads).

 

[doghead]

From the ASE site,

A. General Engine Diagnosis (11 questions)


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]1. Verify the complaint, and road/dyno test vehicle; review driver/customer interview and past maintenance documents (if available); determine further diagnosis.

2. Identify engine model and serial number to research applicable vehicle and service information, service precautions, and technical service bulletins; determine needed actions.

3. Inspect engine assembly and compartment for fuel, oil, coolant, exhaust, or other leaks; determine needed repairs.

4. Inspect engine compartment wiring harness, connectors, seals, and locks; check for proper routing and condition; determine needed repairs.

5. Isolate and diagnose engine noises; determine needed repairs.

6. Check engine exhaust for odor, smoke color, and density; determine needed repairs.

7. Perform fuel supply and return system tests; check fuel for contamination, quality, and consumption; determine needed repairs.

8. Perform air intake system restriction and leakage tests; determine needed repairs.

9. Perform intake manifold pressure tests; determine needed repairs.

10. Perform exhaust back pressure and temperature tests; determine needed repairs.

11. Perform crankcase pressure test; determine needed repairs.

12. Diagnose no cranking, cranks but fails to start, hard starting, and starts but does not continue to run problems; determine needed repairs.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]ASE M[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]e[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]diu[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]m[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]/H[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]ea[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]vy [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]T[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]ruck [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]S[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]t[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]udy [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]G[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]uid[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]e[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]P[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]age[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]17 [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]13. Diagnose surging, rough operation, misfiring, low power, slow deceleration, slow
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]acceleration, and shutdown problems; determine needed repairs. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
14. Isolate and diagnose engine related vibration problems; determine needed repairs.

15. Check cooling system for freeze point, level, contamination, coolant type,
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]temperature, pressure, circulation, conditioner concentration, filtration, and fan [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]operation; determine needed repairs. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
16. Check lubrication system for contamination, oil level, temperature, pressure,
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]filtration, and oil consumption; interpret oil analysis information; determine needed [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]repairs. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
17. Check and record electronic diagnostic codes and trip/operational data; monitor electronic data; verify customer programmable parameters; clear codes; determine further diagnosis.

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]18. Perform visual inspection for physical damage and missing, modified, or tampered
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]components; determine needed repairs. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

[/FONT][/FONT]B. Cylinder Head and Valve Train Diagnosis and Repair (4 questions)


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]1. Remove, inspect, disassemble, and clean cylinder head assembly(s).

2. Inspect threaded holes, studs, and bolts for serviceability; service/ replace as needed.

3. Measure cylinder head thickness, and check mating surfaces for warpage and surface
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]finish; inspect for cracks/damage; check condition of passages; inspect core and [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]gallery plugs; determine serviceability and needed repairs. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
4. Inspect valves, guides, seats, springs, retainers, rotators, locks and seals; determine serviceability and needed repairs.

5. Inspect and/or replace injector sleeves and seals; pressure test to verify repair
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](if applicable); measure injector tip or nozzle protrusion where specified by [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]manufacturer. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
6. Inspect, and/or replace valve bridges (crossheads) and guides; adjust bridges (crossheads) if applicable.

7. Clean components; reassemble, check, and install cylinder head assembly.

8. Inspect pushrods, rocker arms, rocker arm shafts, electronic wiring harness, and brackets for wear, bending, cracks, looseness, and blocked oil passages; repair/ replace as needed.

9. Inspect, install, and adjust cam followers and retainers.

10. Adjust valve clearance and injector settings.

11. Inspect, measure, and replace/reinstall overhead camshaft and bearings; measure and adjust endplay and backlash.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

[/FONT][/FONT]C. Engine Block Diagnosis and Repair (5 questions)


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]1. Remove, inspect, service, and install pans, covers, ventilation systems, gaskets, seals, and wear rings.

2. Disassemble, clean and inspect engine block for cracks; check mating surfaces and
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]related components for damage or warpage and surface finish; check deck height; [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]check condition of passages, core, and gallery plugs; inspect threaded holes, studs, dowel pins and bolts for serviceability; service/replace as needed. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
3. Inspect cylinder sleeve counterbore and lower bore; check bore distortion; determine needed service
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS]T2 T
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][/FONT][/FONT]as[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS]k [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][/FONT][/FONT]L[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS]i[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][/FONT][/FONT]st[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS]([/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS]c[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][/FONT][/FONT]o[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS]n[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][/FONT][/FONT]t[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS]inu[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][/FONT][/FONT]e[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS]d[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS])


[/FONT][/FONT]Notice that without a TM(manual), verification or standard proceedures cannot be verified.

Manuals must be refrenced.



[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet MS][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[rustystud]

Let's not forget that TMs are a very important "base line" for information, with or without experience.

Also, for those that seem to be "anti-TM", we have no idea if a member has experience or has read the basic info from the TMs, when they ask for help(unless they state that in their threads).

Doghead, I am in NO way anti-TM's . In fact I have every TM that's out there for the deuce, and read them daily. My beef is with people who say you can't do something since the TM's say something else. I had a talk with Gringletaube (Gerhard) a couple months back where I mentioned that the deuce had over 3 different cams, it was in the TM . He said " this is a mote point since only one cam is available now" . He was exactly right. These trucks are decades old with NO support available except the very few NOS and rebuilt parts available at very high prices ! So while I'll use the TM's to know how it should go together and the correct parts that should be used, I'll still use the modern equivalents when I cannot find or afford the correct parts.
I also plan on keeping the Multifuel as long as I can, but when the time comes I'll switch to a modern "Cummins" .

 

[Mud Hugger]

Went for a trip yesterday to watch mud bog. Truck ran really nice and would get up to cruising speed nicely. I kept fuel psi guage in for trip to make sure there was nothing wrong elsewhere. I'm hoping today to intall pyro and bypass FDC and go for another trip. Compare the diference

 

[Mud Hugger]

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]All our quads and heavy haulers at work are post turbo and recommend to not exceed 1100 degrees. I have two post turbo cummins pyros. But wasnt sure the best location on the multifuels. Ive also read and heard people drilling a running motor manifold and greasing the tap. Just haven't tried it myself. plan is to attempt it today. Also plan to have shop vacuum right by drill/tap as well. I also believe that any fine metal filings will not harm he turbo. They will easly pass through at start up. Large shavings could get traped/hung up and cause an issue. [/FONT]