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Help Identifying Alternator

SteveKuhn

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Good News: With a bit of light hammer tapping on the flat wrench, all 3 bolts loosened up. Gonna have some help tonight lifting it out.

Still waiting for TM America. Meanwhile, off the shop tomorrow to see if I can get a diagnosis on what's wrong. Gonna look for rebuild part prices and wait for the bracket info before deciding what to do.

Thanks to everybody who commented.

Steve
 

swbradley1

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Sometimes he gets very busy but he will respond to the bracket requests.

They must work well, the Deuce I sold in March had one and the new owner drove it from Dayton, OH to Lubbock, TX. I even put a brand new alternator on the truck right before his plane touched down. The new ones do not charge at idle on a Deuce.

:doh:
 

whatadeuce

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Well I ordered the bracket so as I have 2 deuces I'm sure Ill get the chance to use it. As for not charging on idle, well its mostly driving that I do anyway so that will work out...
 

SteveKuhn

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"...The new ones do not charge at idle on a Deuce..."

Interesting. I'd like to know how that was discovered and at what RPM (or whatever triggers it) the charging actually starts.

Thanks.

Steve
 

swbradley1

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I can tell you how. I have modified two vehicles by putting on a non-stock alternator of the working variety. First was my backhoe. New Holland is built in Belgium (mine) and it had some wonderful British alternator. It was cheaper to put a Delco style on it so I did. I actually used the extra bracket TM America had sent me to put it on. Somewhere I had read that the alternator would not charge until it reached a certain RPM (single wire style) and that is correct, it didn't and it don't. I start the hoe and after a short warm up I run the RPMs up and it works. It must be correct as I have not had to charge the battery since I put it on last year.

Second vehicle was the aforementioned Deuce I sold in March. I had Gimpy check it over before the guy got here and he said it was not charging at idle. Crap! So I had a brand new alternator I was going to put on my M818 and I quickly (quick is a relative term changing an alternator on a Deuce) AFTER I had verified that it was not charging at idle. Turns out the new one did the same thing and they are not supposed to charge at idle. Run them up to speed and they do their job.

My new alternator that I sent on the Deuce with the new buyer tested at 80Amps and it had the bench spec sheet that showed it.

I recommend Pat's Small Engine Parts for all of them. Now if I could just find a source for a pulley replacement instead of drilling one out to fit the new alternator I'd be even happier. I think I have but the jury is still out..... ;-)

http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator1.html


Excerpt:


1-Wire Explained

A 1-wire alternator, also known as a self-exciting alternator, is commonly used on custom cars & trucks, tractors and other non standard applications when simplified wiring is a factor. As the name implies, these alternators provide only one wire connection: the BATT terminal. A heavy cable is typically run directly from the BATT terminal to the positive terminal of the battery.
1-wire alternators are essentially 3-wire setups that have been rewired internally for a simplified final installation:

  • No Remote Voltage Sense Input:
    The regulator's sense line is still used, but instead of connecting to a remote location in your car, it is simply routed directly to the output feed of the regulator. This connection may be inside the alternator where it would be completely hidden from view, or the sense line may actually have an external terminal attached to the output feed stud on the back side of the alternator (see photo above).
A common complaint among custom street rod owners using the 1-wire setup is that their headlights are dim, even with a huge 100-amp alternator wired directly to the battery. This is due to the lack of remote voltage sensing at the power distribution point.
  • No Field Excite/Warning Light Indicator Input:
    The ignition warning light indicator function is omitted with a 1-wire alternator, so your idiot light will not be operational with this setup.
    For the 1-wire, self-exciting design, the field windings are not energized via the ignition switch; instead, a special circuit is built into the internal voltage regulator that senses the rotation of the alternator’s rotor. The rotor must turn at sufficient speed to trip the circuit which excites the field windings and starts the charging process. This “cut-in” speed is affected by several things and is typically higher with certain high amperage alternators. Prior to reaching the cut-in speed, the charging system is not activated and the battery will be discharging. However, once the cut-in circuit is tripped, the alternator will charge at all speeds, even very low ones, until the alternator’s rotor comes to a complete stop. At that point, the circuit will shut off and wait for the process to be repeated.
    Typically, after starting the engine, the engine must be revved above 1200-2000 RPM to turn-on the 1-wire alternator.

The advantage of a 1-wire system over the 3-wire system is that the installation is simplified and provides for a very clean installation. All that is required is a heavy gauge cable running between the output feed stud on the rear of the alternator and the battery.

Some of the disadvantages associated with the 1-wire system are:

  • Less than optimal voltage levels at points downstream from the alternator;
  • The ignition warning light is omitted;
  • At startup, a slow-running engine will not be spinning fast enough to turn-on the alternator and the system will be discharging until the throttle is blipped and the engine revs higher than the alternator cut-in speed.
  • Higher cost than 3-wire equivalent.
 

welldigger

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Don't let the detail of the delco unit not charging at idle scare you away. A deuce uses almost zero power while running. A few lights and a fuel pump. Not exactly high demand. I have noticed zero problems with mine. Once you get used to watching the charging needle raise and fall it's no big deal. My batteries stay topped off on their own so obviously everything is working.
 

SteveKuhn

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That's a good explanation.

I heard back from TM America and am trying to understand the rest of this while I wait on the shop diagnosis. It looks like SpiderMarine has the alternator and pulley that works. Trukhead had this quote at http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...or-just-died&p=1516390&viewfull=1#post1516390, and says that it charges at idle:

"...Here is a link to the pulley. This company is a good company as well.

http://store.alternatorparts.com/partno241751.aspx

spider cross reference and had the pulley..."


Welldigger, is this the pulley you used?

Thanks again to all. By now you've figgered out I ain't a mechanic. Just dumbin' my way through it.

Steve
 

welldigger

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No! Do not use that pulley. That is for a 7 groove serpentine belt. Just drill the double groove pulley out to 7/8" that came off your old alternater. I did mine on a drill press.
 
Last edited:

SteveKuhn

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I'd like to replace the pulley as well. Someone posted someplace that they had replaced theirs but they weren't specific about with what. I'm wondering if anyone has a recommendation. TM America says in a post that the closet he's found is about 5mm off. That leaves me with scaring up another L-M takeoff. Oh - and about that drill press and a 7/8" bit . . .

How does it secure to the Delco after it's drilled?

Thanks for the continuing education . . .

Steve
 

welldigger

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I had my alternator shop try and find me a double groove pulley and the closest thing they found me didn't even come close to lining up. The pulley is secured to the delco unit with a bolt and washer.

Is your pulley damaged? Otherwise I don't see the need to replace it.
 

welldigger

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As far as drilling it out I admit I over thought it at first. Once it was done it turned out to be really easy.

I started with a cheapo harbor freight step bit that had 7/8" as the largest step. Once I got a nice pilot hole started I switched to my 7/8" silver and demming bit. There is zero run out in my pulley that I can see. Use plenty of cutting oil while drilling.
 

swbradley1

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I had my Brother bore my first one out on his CNC lathe at work. I cheated. ;-)
 

SteveKuhn

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Nothing wrong with the existing pulley. I just want to keep the unit intact and assemble the new unit completely and separately. I have none of those tools nor can I borrow them. I'll have to source one and go to a local machine shop to have it done.

Steve
 

swbradley1

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If you get an extra pulley take the new alternator with you and let them bore it out to fit exactly. I want to say 7/8" but if you take it and they do it it's on them if it is wrong. Mine went on with no play at all but then again, my Brother took the alternator and the pulley with him when he did mine.

You won't be disappointed if you do it correctly.
 

SteveKuhn

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Thanks for the advice. That's what I had figger'd on doing. :idea:

I might not be a mechanic, but I do have a small clue on how to do mechanical things properly. I'm placing an ad today and also making some inquiries.

Keep 'em coming.

Steve
 
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