Help Identifying Alternator

[SteveKuhn]

Well, the parts are ordered & I'm waiting. Bracket from TM America, Pulley from Kublo's, and the alternator from SpiderMarine. I doubt I'll have them in time to machine them & install properly to make the 2 events on Father's Day weekend, though.

SpiderMarine surprised me after reading so many comments about dealing with them. They're one of those Internet vendors who do everything possible to force you to the website, even when you phone. Question? Website - we check messages once a week. Returns? Request via email. Order? Go to the website. We'll take your phone order but we'll tack on $5.00 for talking to you. If I would have had a reliable alternative at a competitive price for an actual Delco unit, I wouldn't have bought from them. Unfortunately, I'm trying to make those events and I didn't have more time to source.

Oh - and the alternator shop called - bad stator. TM says get another unit. Shop said to go civvy.

Steve

 

[swbradley1]

Post number 2 in the thread. Not Delco but then I want something that works that I don't have to pay for a name.

Oh yeah, they will talk to you on the phone. While talking to them one time they said the one I had ordered at a certain price had had a price reduction and they gave it to me at the lower price before shipping it out.

 

[SteveKuhn]

I was at work with limited time and just took the phone greeting announcement at face value and, like I said, I wanted to get the order in process. Often I push things to get the service I want if I'm not rushed.

That post had slipped my mind but I remembered comments in another thread about Chinese Delco-style units (which I found all over the place) vs Delco and I wanted the name. FWIW, SM's price was within $3, and everything they have in writing says it's Delco. Their ad says:

Part Number: A8003


Delco 21si One-wire Hookup For Cummins, Timberjack, Volvo

Details: Alternator

OEM(s): Delco

In the warranty there was this disclaimer:

All Products may be aftermarket unless otherwise specifically indicated within the items detailed description

Products may not be returned because customer is dissatisfied with the product not being built by the OEM

​

Well, to me that combination means it'll be a Delco, but just to be sure I put this in the order's Special Instructions:

"... I understand that this is a Delco alternator, not Delco-style by a different mfr. I need to hear from you if either of these instructions present a problem."
​

No word, so I guess it's a Delco. If they mess up, I have tons of documentation and a screen shot of the product so I'll simply dispute the card payment for an RMA + shipping.

Steve

 

[swbradley1]

Right diameter shaft.

Nice to have another source.

 

[welldigger]

I wonder if the housing is the same for the 21si vs. 27si. Cause mine is a 27si. Don't know if that matters.

 

[swbradley1]

The back of the housing looks like the terminals are a little different but it should mount the same onto the engine.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Don't trust Spider Marine. They advertise name brands, relabel, and ship substitutes. The alternator arrived today and it's Chinese, made by WPS, a company documented in another alternator thread. I'm steamed beyond belief that they would simply ignore written instructions. I've already demanded an RMA, credit for goods and shipping as well as return shipping. As far as I'm concerned this is really skeevy business.

I have what I think is a info on a pulley that didn't need to be machined, but I'm not going to write it up until I find out if it really works.

Steve

 

[Jeepsinker]

Sorry to hear that. Maybe you can find one American made from an equipment company or something.

 

[welldigger]

This is exactly why I had my alternator shop build me one.

 

[whatadeuce]

I ordered and paid for an alternator for my M35A2 and was told they were out of stock, was offered an alternative for more money, , but when asked if the alternative would fit into the TM America mounting hardware, I did not get a satisfactory answer, so I asked for my money back...

 

[SteveKuhn]

OK, a night's sleep later. I spent some quality time with Google, made a few calls and I'll pass along what I learned in case anyone else can use the info. A new 21si that is stamped Delco-Remy is not an easily available item. Alternator shop says they think they can get them but aren't sure. It will be very expensive. It's possible that they're no longer being made. The ones with the mfr stamp that I found are mostly remans and start around $260 (double the price of this one.) Delco has a PDF on the web for replacing the 21si with a 35si, so that suggests obsolescence.

The local high-reputation alternator shop and my regular mechanic both said the same things - at the price, give it a try. Lots of times they have to accept an imported 3rd party just to get the vehicle back on the road. They're seeing a lot of imports on newer cars (obvious externally or sometimes only internally) and while they won't rebuild them, the overall failure rate doesn't seem that bad.

It'll take a couple of washers to get it to fit on the TM America mount, and the pulley seems to fit the same. I'm gonna try mounting it and see what happens.

My opinions on the whole deal haven't changed but I'll give expedient a try.

Steve

 

[whatadeuce]

Hello SteveKuhn, And thank you for all your valuable information. Following it all with great interest I look forward to your discoveries, as I own two deuces and am sure I will have to address this alternator issue. I just spoke to a popular vendor, and Terry told me that they do in fact have the American made originals ,but they are rebuilds. The EXCHANGE price is $325. What scares me about the alternator from the small engine place, ( its the 21si, is that correct?), is that they are out of stock and now have an alternative that SHOULD FIT !. I cant handle having something that I hope will work. I want to be SURE it will work, and when I need it! Well, that's what I get from working in the motor pool under military commanders. ...I cant imagine this : .I'm sorry Captain Bonecrusher , my spare parts don't quite fit,....

 

[SteveKuhn]

For as much as what any of it is worth, the label above carries the part number SM showed for (their version of a) 21si (not an equivalent that should fit.). I wouldn't have agreed to one that approximates it. We'll find out 'how approximate' the import is later today.

With what I know now, I'd have shopped the remans for an original. I'm not sure I'd have embarked on what would have become a $350 - $400 civvy replacement project, but maybe. I suspect that some of the reports of $200 projects actually have the imported alternators. In fairness, I haven't read anything that says that they're bad. If the deal was straightforward about mfr, I might well have tried it. There were plenty on that same auction site. I'm just steamed at the attempt to blow one by me with a bogus label. Caveat emptor.

I have seen the US remans on the [unmentionable] auction site for a straight $26x price, no exchange. Google has other outlets, too.

Steve

 

[whatadeuce]

Steve, Here is what I found on EbayView attachment Alternator.docxView attachment Alternator.docx

Used On	Cummins, Timberjack w/ Cummins 5.9L, 8.3L Diesel
Replaces	Delco 1117897, 1117900, 19010111, 19010182
Lester Nos	7642, 8003
Dimensions	M6 x 1.0 Batt. Term. Universal R-Term. M4 I-Term.
Notes	With fan, without pulley
Features	100% New WAI-Transpo premium rectifier & regulator Premium, hi-temperature WBD 6305 bearing Long-shaft rotor & longer needle bearing provides more bearing surface to spread the load for longer lasting service 1/4-20 thru bolts - larger than OE 10-24 bolts Rotor coil leads are epoxied to prevent vibration failure Hi-temperature class-H windings Precision CNC machined castings OE performance output curve

 

[Jeepsinker]

The imported alternators do have a much higher failure rate. The nice thing is that you usually find out as soon as you get it installed. They usually don't charge right out of the box. You get three or four bad ones to one good one. That's another reason why it is hard to make a living as a mechanic at a smaller shop anymore. Nobody likes to do the job three times.

 

[welldigger]

The imported alternators do have a much higher failure rate. The nice thing is that you usually find out as soon as you get it installed. They usually don't charge right out of the box. You get three or four bad ones to one good one. That's another reason why it is hard to make a living as a mechanic at a smaller shop anymore. Nobody likes to do the job three times.

I have been through the oreily rebuild lottery quite a few times. Usually the starters and alternaters I get work.....for about 6 months to a year. If it wasn't for the lifetime warranty I would just have my local shop rebuild them. When he does a starter or alternater for me it lasts many many years. If I even have problems out of it.

I'd take a rebuild unit from a reputable shop over a made in China new one any day.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Well, this isn't gonna work w/ a TM America bracket. I took the time to do some mounting and fitting and fiddling and no matter how you cut it, the alternator shaft is just too close to (or in) the fan. I was wishing it would work just to get the truck running.

I'm not gonna get long winded explaining ins and outs, but the bushing at the back of the casting pushes the unit too far forward. If it's removed, it's about 1/8" too wide to fit into the bracket. It would also mean drilling the back hole of the bracket to accomodate a much bigger bolt.

I went back and reread. The threads where these exact units were used had brackets made for them. I'm not gonna get into a bunch of fabrication.

Off to my friendly alt shop tomorrow to see if I can measure up against one of his Delco 21si DOAs. Maybe take it back for a fitting.

Here are a few snapshots to illustrate.

Anybody have a couple shots of the real Delco in the TM America Bracket they could post?

Thanks.

Steve

 

[welldigger]

Here's mine. Again this is a 27si not a 21si. The bottom ears are a bit narrower looking that what's in yours. Though you can't tell from the pictures.

 

[welldigger]

Actually, does the pulley line up. Cause if it does just cut that shaft down.

You will also probably need to move your primary fuel filter to the underside of the framerail. At least I had to on mine.

 

[texas30cal]

Go to a junkyard, find one off a Chevy truck and let your local shop rebuild it, a lot better than anything from china.