Suggested air tank size?

[TechnoWeenie]

I got an M1010, wanted to get air horns but figured if I'm getting a tank, I might as well use it for onboard systems, including airing up tires, air tools, etc.. Wanna keep some common air tools so I can do work in the field kind of stuff...

Any suggestions on how much I'd need for rare/random use?

I've seen as low as 2 gallons (pancake) with a heavy duty compressor to feed it with air... Some people say go 20+ gallons with a much smaller compressor...

Ideally, I'd want to be able to use an air/hydraulic jack, and lift the truck, then use an air drill to get the lug nuts off, new tire back on and aired up... all using air tools/jack.. WITHOUT running out of air, and without needing a compressor.

I will be using a compressor with a pressure switch, so if it drops below a certain PSI it'll turn on automatically, but I want to be able to at least do a tire change without having the engine running or killing the battery from a compressor.

 

[MtnSnow]

With what you want to do and the size of the air tools you want to use even a 60 gallon tank will be drained before you get a tire switched out & aired up so either your going to have to run the engine so the onboard compressor can keep filling the tank or your going to have to put a gas powered motor driven compressor into use...

 

[TechnoWeenie]

With what you want to do and the size of the air tools you want to use even a 60 gallon tank will be drained before you get a tire switched out & aired up so either your going to have to run the engine so the onboard compressor can keep filling the tank or your going to have to put a gas powered motor driven compressor into use...

I thought it'd be undersized for a larger truck.. but the M1010 is just 5/4 ton...

Still too small?

Suggestions on tank size/electric pump?

PTO is out of the question (I think)

 

[MtnSnow]

Sorry... A smaller tank like a 20 gallon that has a compressor to keep it filled would do a fair job on your 1010.....when I first replied I was on my phone and thought it said 1070 aka Het... But I will say the larger the tank the longer you can do stuff before you need a compressor to refill it...

 

[MtnSnow]

just to give you an idea a 20 gallon air tank at 150psi contains approximately 30 cubic feet of air. Most 1/2" impact guns use 90psi of pressure so you only have 60psi of reserve working pressure which means you have about 12 cubic feet of air to use while the impact gun can work within it's design parameters.

This is why most "on road" tire service trucks have a 40-60 gallon tank with a 2 stage compressor that is gas or diesel engine driven. Air tools take a lot of air and pressure to work properly. Now if you only needed to air up one or maybe even two of your M1010 standard sized tires say from 10psi to 40 psi the 20 gallon tank could do it without having to be topped off but the second tire will take longer to fill as the pressure in the tank will be less so the speed of the air transfer is slower and slower as the pressures start to equalize

 

[tim292stro]

Why not trade the M1010 for an M1031?

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Why not trade the M1010 for an M1031?

I'll have one of those too, eventually...

Basically want a self sustained camper type platform with proper tools.

At first I thought I'd go 24V tools, but realized the cost and availability was all but none. You can pick up decent air tools for dirt cheap, AND if I gotta have air for my Grover, might as well work it into the system..

I can also think of tons of uses for air, including pressurizing a water tank, Ie for a quick field shower...

 

[Keith_J]

I can do 5 of the 8 lug nuts on a 1008 with my little pancake. All if I stop the impact wrench when they are broke loose, then drain the tank spinning them off as very little pressure is needed.

tank size is a function of compressor output, you would never get a 50 gallon tank filled with a 1 com compressor, likewise the compressor would cycle too fast if you had a 5 gallon tank hooked to a 20 cfm compressor.

get a compressor that has at least 2 cfm and hook it to a 5 gallon tank

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

I can also think of tons of uses for air, including pressurizing a water tank, Ie for a quick field shower...

I agree about tons of uses for air, but that's not one of them I'd use. That's a hugely inefficient way of moving water. Much better just to run an electric pump. You have to provide the energy somehow.

With a compressor, you are:

1. running the engine
2. to charge the battery
3. to run the compressor
4. to pressurize the air holding tank
5. to pressurize the water tank
6. to move the water.

With an electric water pump, you are:

1. running the engine
2. to charge the battery
3. to run the pump
4. to move the water.

Every step has losses, so you want as few steps as possible. Plus, with a pressurized water system, you are more likely to have leaks.


KISS.


For the compressor, pay attention to duty cycle. A 2 CFM with a 30% duty cycle vs. a 1 CFM with a 100% duty cycle are two very different animals, and I'd take the second one any day of the week.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Here is what my choice was for portable air. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?76066-Onboard-Air&highlight=puma
Not sure how it would function with air horns. It does have 100% duty cycle. I have since switched to the Milwaukee M18 line of cordless tools. The 1/2" impact will do lugnuts on a CUCV without breaking a sweat. I've pulled 4 tires and replaced them all with the impact and 1 battery. My air tools in the garage have mostly sat dormant since the M18 line came home.

Oh, the air assisted jack sucks cubic air. Might want to reconsider this, it's kind of a novelty with a CUCV.

 

[tim292stro]

I'll have one of those too, eventually...

Basically want a self sustained camper type platform with proper tools.

At first I thought I'd go 24V tools, but realized the cost and availability was all but none. You can pick up decent air tools for dirt cheap, AND if I gotta have air for my Grover, might as well work it into the system..

I can also think of tons of uses for air, including pressurizing a water tank, Ie for a quick field shower...

To me, it seems complicated for something self-sustained.

"Good" hand tools will work for a 5/4-ton truck - I can see the need for air tools if you are planning on doing a lot of work - but what are you really expecting to do, and for how long?

Pressurizing a shower is great with air pressure, but you can get by with gravity feed - the M1010 is pretty high, so you can hang a 5-gallon water can on the side of the truck and stand under it. The drawback of having high pressure water is that it comes out the nozzle faster (so how much are you expecting to carry?).

Pressure vessels need to be maintained - and the same goes for installed systems. Are you really planning to use it so much that it justifies the effort cost and future maintenance that you need to install a huge air system?

Also, if you're trying to use the M1010 as a "camper" where are you thinking of putting an air tank? You want to keep it away from exhaust, drive shafts - and you want to keep it crash-safe, especially if you plan to have it pressurized while moving. I think this means that you need a DOT approved tank design too. I guess I'm just not understanding your vision... Have you drawn up a plan for anything?

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Viair 444C 100% duty cycle @ 100PSI, 1.6 CFM
5 gallon tank

Sound about right?

Avg air gun should be about 3cfm? So It should be pretty good..

..OR.. I can get two pumps, 3.2 cfm, but then we're drawing 40A to supply constant air which is wasteful, IMO..