Brake issues....

[stanky johanson]

I know this topic has been cover multiple times on SS, But in my reading of links and tms, i have not found one explanation for my brake issues.

So far i have beld the brakes with over two gallons of DOT-5, and i can hear the air pack charge then bleed of the air after i let of the brakes. But still no stopping power. No leaks have been found, and when the brakes are applied, i can hear the springs and shoes move in each drum.

I am pulling the master cylinder in the am along with the air pack.

6000 miles as my DD so far, and this is the only issue i have had.


By far the best truck i have ever owned, just have to get the ole brakes workin.

Thanks for the input

Kevin

 

[welldigger]

If you have a firm pedal and no brake boost your air pack is bad. Before you pull the master cylinder pull the rubber boot back on it. If there is no brake fluid behind that boot then the MC is ok. If there is brake fluid it needs rebuilt or replaced.

 

[stanky johanson]

Im starting to think both are bad, pedal gos to the floor, and hard pedal at times with no braking boost.

 

[welldigger]

Like I said, if brake fluid isn't bypassing the piston in the MC then it more than likely isn't the problem.

If it is, then it needs to be addressed.

 

[Jeepsinker]

There is a small plug on the back of the air pack facing the spare tire. It may be an Allen plug or a square head plug, I believe 1/8" npt. Pull that plug and step on and hold the brakes after you've built air pressure. See if brake fluid sprays out and covers the spare tire.

 

[MWMULES]

Have you adjusted your brake shoes?

 

[welldigger]

Have you adjusted your brake shoes?

Ya that could be another issue. Especially after 6000 miles.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Couldn't hurt. Sounds more like hydraulic issues to me though. That's what mine was doing last week when I had to change my leaking master cylinder. And every once in a while I'll get some fluid seepage into the air side of the air pack and it'll cause a good pedal with poor stopping power. I need to fix that too at some point.

 

[jetman10]

I've been trying to post but haven't figured it out yet . I have a '66 deuce and I had a hard pedal but no air assist . I rebuilt the air pack , then no pedal at all ! I replaced the pac with a NOS one and still no brakes . I also put a lot of DOT 5 thru it .No leaks at the MC . Any ideas ? Thanks .

 

[welldigger]

I've been trying to post but haven't figured it out yet . I have a '66 deuce and I had a hard pedal but no air assist . I rebuilt the air pack , then no pedal at all ! I replaced the pac with a NOS one and still no brakes . I also put a lot of DOT 5 thru it .No leaks at the MC . Any ideas ? Thanks .

Are you bleeding in the correct order?

 

[Jeepsinker]

If you don't bleed it correctly you will never get the air out.

 

[phil2968]

Working on deuce brakes should always start with adjusting the brake shoes. Properly per the tm.
Not adjusting them first is like working on a cucv electrical problem without making sure the batteries are fully charged.
It leads to more work and does not fix the problem.

 

[stanky johanson]

So, today i installed a new master cylinder, broke the air pack down, inspected and cleaned the unit. No pitting or rust. still have no brakes.

 

[jetman10]

When I bought the deuce it had a hard pedal, but no air assist . When I " bobbed " it and ran new brake lines I bled everything and still had a hard pedal but no air . Then, I rebuilt the pac with instructions from " steel soldiers " and no pedal . Thinking that the kit was wrong or the directions , I installed a NOS pac from E-bay , No brakes at all . I'm going to bench bleed the MC and start from there . The only thing I did to the new pac was plug the port to the trailer brakes . The lines had been cut and crimped anyway .

 

[welldigger]

When I bought the deuce it had a hard pedal, but no air assist . When I " bobbed " it and ran new brake lines I bled everything and still had a hard pedal but no air . Then, I rebuilt the pac with instructions from " steel soldiers " and no pedal . Thinking that the kit was wrong or the directions , I installed a NOS pac from E-bay , No brakes at all . I'm going to bench bleed the MC and start from there . The only thing I did to the new pac was plug the port to the trailer brakes . The lines had been cut and crimped anyway .

Bench bleeding won't help you. Does the fluid level drop? Have you inspected each wheel cylinder? Have you adjusted the shoes at each wheel?

When you bled the brakes did you bleed the airpack first?

 

[Jeepsinker]

Yeah you guys both still have air in there somewhere. As Welldigger said, bench bleeding will do nothing to help you. You bleed at the airpack first, then right rear wheel, left rear wheel, right middle wheel, left middle wheel, driver front wheel, passenger front wheel. It also helps to use the power bleeder described in the stickies. Works every time.

 

[rustystud]

Yeah you guys both still have air in there somewhere. As Welldigger said, bench bleeding will do nothing to help you. You bleed at the airpack first, then right rear wheel, left rear wheel, right middle wheel, left middle wheel, driver front wheel, passenger front wheel. It also helps to use the power bleeder described in the stickies. Works every time.

Just like Jeepsinker and welldigger said you "must" start bleeding your brakes from the air-pack first and then follow downstream. Unless you have a dual air-pack system, then you make sure the master cylinder is bled out then the left side air-pac then the right side air-pac. Of course the very first thing is to adjust those brakes ! If you don't follow the proper procedures you will never get your brakes right !

 

[porkysplace]

If haven't built a power bleeder here is a good thread on building one .
Deuce Power Bleeder R4x4 Style

 

[stanky johanson]

Here is an update on the brakes,

I rebuilt the air pack from an NOS kit, found out i have the A3 short style. I completely drained and leaned out all of the dot 5 from the brake lines. Say what you want but i switched over to dot 3 due to the amount of brake fluid i was consuming in my attempts to find the issues. Still have the same issues with the brakes, Yes my pads have adequate friction material on them, and i ajusted them per the TM.


I am running into the same issue again, with the new MC and the rebuilt air pack.


Dose any one have an exploded view of the new short style air pack?


Thanks,
Kevin

 

[Jeepsinker]

You'll have to completely flush your brake system every year now you know. Have you built the pressure bleeder linked in the previous posts yet and used it? When you crack the bleed screw on the airpack do you get a good stream of fluid flow from it?