I just saw a ton of Sherman/Stewart sprockets in Ohio...

[Mongo]

While looking at an auction for "Cletrac residue" I noticed that said residue was sitting on top of a pile of Sherman drive sprockets and transmissions/differentials and tracks. I also noted an idler wheel for a Stewart..... and some other "demiled" armor parts.

Are there armor part junkyards like this all over the place still stocked with WWII era parts?

I want to buy some armor some day but if the expendable parts aren't available (sprockets, tracks, ect) then I can't expect to drive it much. If I can't drive it, I will stick with wheeled vehicles....

 

[gunboy1656]

Sam Winer in Ohio has/had 18 high speed tractors for sale.

 

[Monkeyboyarmy]

Yep. Sam Winers. HST parts in the background. Putting together a Cletrac?

 

[Mongo]

Thinking about it. I found one in semi-running condition but if I can't get parts and drive it at least occasionally... I will look at other projects. The engine and drive train I don't think will be a problem, like with any vehicls it is always about the "consumable" parts.

 

[Wildchild467]

A high speed tractor would be a blast to own! I like the looks of the M4 HST myself

 

[maddawg308]

Are there armor part junkyards like this all over the place still stocked with WWII era parts?

Not specifically - there are yards that have some leftover WWII armor in them, and dealers with some WWII armor parts, but armored vehicles are few and far between anymore in salvage yards. There are lots more parts available for them than there are vehicles to put them on. And like you said, it's always about the "consumable" parts, that determine whether or not many armored vehicles are still operating or not. Ask any halftrack or Weasel owner about tracks and you'll get a good story, most didn't buy spares when they were available and now there are none, and the owner's are kinda scratching their heads about what to do.

Those drive sprockets, trannys and other parts are not really rare, at least not as rare as the vehicles they go on. I see more drive sprockets being converted into wall clocks and tables for the "industrial furniture/art" crowd than I see getting used on armor. It's a shame they are laying around a junkyard, but if they were valuable as gold, they would've been sold already by Winer.

 

[Mongo]

That helps put things in perspective. I was not completely unaware of the plight of the halftrack and weasel owners as those vehicles or a Brenn Carrier were all also on my radar at one point or another. Replacement tracks was one of the things that stopped me from pursueing those.

I just didn't expect to see all those sprockets. When I drove my M551 in the army, tracks were difficult to come by. The more bad bushings your tracks had, the worse your sprockets wore. I figured with as hard as it is to come by Sherman tracks, those sprockets must be wearing out like crazy for the guys who actually drive them. Then I noticed that pile of track sections in the backround of on of those pictures and started thinking that either tracks aren't as rare as I have been brought to believe... or I had magically stumbled on a supply no one else was aware of....

 

[frank8003]

No pictures please
Nothing to see here
move along now

 

[jasonjc]

Ask any halftrack or Weasel owner about tracks and you'll get a good story, most didn't buy spares when they were available and now there are none, and the owner's are kinda scratching their heads about what to do.

But they just got a new batch of tracks made. With all the CNC stuff and 3D printers , new comsumable parts are right around the coner. There's a guy on here restoring a M151 that is repoping boady panels now. New part for alot of stuff may get easyer to find in the future.

 

[maddawg308]

True - time will tell if 3D printing solves all the problems we have getting parts. 100 years from now when all the original Willys MBs are either gone or only billionaires can afford them, maybe if we want to bop around town in one we can just print one off. Amazing times we live in.

 

[frank8003]

True - time will tell if 3D printing solves all the problems we have getting parts.................Amazing times we live in.

print in gold
http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140512-time-to-print-gold.html

 

[wanderingwillys]

Thinking about it. I found one in semi-running condition but if I can't get parts and drive it at least occasionally... I will look at other projects. The engine and drive train I don't think will be a problem, like with any vehicls it is always about the "consumable" parts.

If you're looking to do a cletrac tug (MG-1) be aware the track issue is even more a problem than weasels and halftracks, not sure about the bren carriers...

It's an endless rubber bank made by BF Goodridge - last produced in 1951 - they cannot seem to locate any of the tooling or molds so we are pretty much left with what is out there... Which is not a lot (they only made ~7,000 units total)

But all that said I have 2 resto units and one for spare parts...

Air compressors, generators, water pumps, and carbs are the other big stumbling blocks...

I was actually thinking of picking up that transmission / final drive unit from Winers for parts - just hadn't decided yet

HTH

Matt

 

[turnkey]

UJunkyard still parts of a m4 and m2 halftrack in it...been there for years.

 

[waayfast]

Mongo, Matt, Monkeyboyarmy and all others interested in the Cletrac M2,

That Cletrac final drive assy. with just the rear half of the frame still attached (i.e. "The Cletrac Residue), has been purchased by a businessman in Akron, OH that is getting set up to manufacture new tracks for Halftracks.

And since the Cletrac M2 Medium High Speed Tractor has tracks that are VERY similar to the halftrack, he is setting up to build new tracks for the Cletracs as well.

He purchased that final drive (with the drive wheels) so as to construct a test bed to run tracks on. I have donated a more complete track frame (frame, the four suspension units with road wheels, track return wheels and front idler wheels) so that for the new Cletrac tracks, the test bed will actually be a complete Cletrac drive train.

It will be powered by a Chevy small block and automatic trans because that repower will actually be easier,cheaper and quicker than trying to find the Herc WXLC3 and trying to find clutch parts. We are testing tracks here---not restoring, but if anyone has more M2 Cletrac parts laying around for him, feel free to donate------

I am also bringing a broken track (this is how this whole thing started anyways) so they can study the replaceable track pads and how they are attached.

I'm modifying a trailer to haul my stuff over to Akron in the near future.

I feel these machines were so important for the war effort, they deserve to be kept running and driving and with new tracks that will be possible.



Good to see you on here Matt---it's been awhile--contact me and I'll try to fill you in on details,

Jim

 

[wanderingwillys]

Hiya Jim - yep it has been a while - been back to fixing big marine diesels so I have been traveling lots (actually got to check out some cool WWII stuff in Guam when I was down that way but that's another story)

I was actually thinking of ya as I was toying with the idea of converting my parts frame into a trailer unit as seen on some of the pictures - it was a complete suspension minus one road wheel (missing the wheel, hub, bearings, and bearing nuts) You wouldn't happen to have any of that stuff around would you?

I might just look for another parts unit as I would need the front frame section, idle wheels and tensioning assemblies...

As for parts for the track project what are you guys looking for?

I have two broken tracks and was toying with some ideas to repair them - if the rubber was machined back I think you could sandwich two strips of conveyor belt material between the grouser and the factory drive bars... Just give up on the metal aircraft wire for structure and get conveyor belting with reinforcement layers in it. If needed you could drill and tap the metal drive bars to accept countersunk allen head cap screws to secure the inner belting where the road wheels run...

But of course the idea of a new manufacture track would be far nicer.

Matt

 

[wanderingwillys]

Been playing around with the new kitteh in my avatar too - he's 10 months old and already 23lbs - he's quite the shop cat already - made off with a few rags full of nuts and bolts and likes to sleep on the soft tops of both the wrecker and the deuce...

 

[waayfast]

Matt,

By donating my frame, my spare(loose) roadwheels go to the project. I have some leads on more stuff but it's really along shot. I will keep you in mind when looking for goodies.

I remember those trailer pics and thought the same thing!! I wonder if any of those Cletrac trailers are still up in Alaska?

As far as more parts for the track project----I was just thinking Greg will end up with a running/driveable platform with our parts. This would be the start of building a machine from the ground up. Then, just keep finding/refurbing/painting and adding parts. Kinda like a Johnny Cash "one piece at a time" Cadillac on tracks! If he has a test bed he can actually drive around with the wife and kids riding along in the hometown parade, hopefully he will get the bug and build us lots of tracks, LOL!

Repairing broken/original tracks for your trailer project sounds like it would be a little more forgiving than trying to repair a set for a powered machine. No tension from pulling under power---just coasting along so to speak. Also since you could run "toothless" idler wheels front and rear, if your pitch was "off" at the repair --- no worries at all!

Looks like you can split a drive wheel, remove the sprocket and replace it with spacer to build an idler. I would think a straight axle across the back end would suffice as you would not be wearing out a spare final drive (in addition to dragging around all that extra weight!!)
To repair a broken track, I have thought about welding roller chain to the sides of the track up against the edges of the track pads. Maybe combine both repair methods???

Nice cat! A guy here in town has one ---they are pretty cool.

Oh, I recently went on a trip and found Cletrac Serial#9JA120 sitting at a museum along the way. Very complete with ALL of the air system and the gauges still have all the glass even!! Needless to say, the owner was certainly interested in hearing about new tracks!

Jim

Jim

 

[wanderingwillys]

Yep - solid ideas - I am really just looking for the road wheel hub casting - I have extra road wheels and can figure out the bearings and nuts, so really the part I am missing is one actual cast road wheel hub....

My unit that has the title and WA state collector plates (yup - street legal, ish) has the cast sprockets on the rear and a fabricated welded sprocket on the front so I planned on swapping the cast sprockets off the parts unit to make that one all the same - if I had to I could run the fabricated sprocket halves on the insides of the "trailer project"


Would be easiest to just get another dead frame and borrow the extensions and idle hub units off of it to use on the trailer but I suppose in a pinch that stuff could be fabbed up too...


So where was 9JA120 - that's on 302 units away from my un-title tractor (9JA422)

I only know of three others in museums - the Airforce Museum, Evergreen Aviation (13JA01) , and Pima Air and Space Museum - the one at Pima wasn't on display when I was down that way...

The guys at Evergreen were super cool about me taking lots of measurements and pictures - practically climbing on the thing

Matt

 

[waayfast]

Matt,

9JA120 was in southern Colorado (Cortez) in a private collection/museum. I thought you'd get a kick hearing about it since it's so close to your serial. Got a chance to chat a while with the owner. He laughed and said everyone that sees it wants it. (I just HAD to ask if it was for sale LOL!). Said he has another machine (did not get the serial) that was at another location. Said it is repowered with a Cletrac Diesel.

The Warhawk Museum in Nampa, ID had a Cletrac on display outside but it is in VERY rough shape--not much left of it.

I remember the one at Pima---maybe they have it in getting restored.

Jim

 

[wanderingwillys]

Very nice! I saw a picture of a hot rodded one - fenders taken off, winch removed, cletrac 6 cyl diesel and a single cletrac seat from a civy tractor - and of course it was bright yellow - I'll see if I can find the pic

Matt