LMTV and Gov Planets oil sample analysis

[MidnightDuramax]

What should you look for when looking at one of these samples? I have notice that copper and iron levels are higher than other levels in the transmission. Does anyone know what is an acceptable/ average level? Do these readings say the trans is bad?

 

[OilfieldRoughneck]

Elements are quantified in the oil at part per million levels (PPM). This list shows the most common sources of the elements in a gasoline or diesel engine oil.
This is a good place to identify things like bypass filtration, mods, etc.
Aluminum: Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks).
Chromium: Rings, a trace element in steel.
Iron: Cylinders, rotating shafts, the valve train, and any steel part sharing the oil.
Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Lead: Bearings.
Tin: Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings.
Molybdenum: Anti-wear additive, some types of rings.
Nickel: Trace element in steel, platings on some cylinder types.
Manganese: Trace element, additive in gasoline.
Silver: Trace element, some types of bearings.
Titanium: Trace wear metal, additive in some brands of oil.
Potassium: Antifreeze, additive in some oil types.
Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitors.
Silicon: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, sand-casted parts, spray lubricants, antifreeze inhibitor.
Sodium: Antifreeze, additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Calcium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Phosphorus: Anti-wear additive.
Zinc: Anti-wear additive.
Barium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
You'll need your client ID if you want to sign in to My Reports and view your results.
The amount of oil you added between oil changes.
This is the average wear for this particular type of engine for you or your business.
From left to right, these are your past samples.
This column shows average wear for all the samples we've seen from this type of engine.

The additives in this column are a mix of all different types of oil, so you can't compare them to your sample.
Viscosity/Flashpoint: If fuel or a solvent is present in the oil, the Viscosity (grade of the oil) and Flashpoint will often be lower than stated on the "Should Be" line. On the other hand, a high viscosity may show oil oxidation or high levels of soot. It can also show an oil additive in use.
Antifreeze %: A question mark means we found possible trace of coolant, but not enough to definitively say it's there.
Water: Indicates the amount of moisture found in the oil.
Insolubles: Solids formed by oxidation of the oil and blow-by past the rings.
Unit ID: This is how you want to identify the engine--for example, "99 Ford" or "Big Blue."
Code: For internal use only.
Viscosity, flashpoint, % fuel and antifreeze, % water and insolubles are all measured in gasoline and diesel engine oils. If fuel is present in the oil, the viscosity and flashpoint will often be lower than what was stated in the "Should be" line. Insolubles are solid material that is centrifuged out of the oil. They are typically free carbon from the oxidation of the oil itself, along with blow-by past the rings.
Aluminum: Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks).
Molybdenum: Anti-wear additive, coating on some new rings (washes off as break-in occurs).
Nickel: Trace element in steel.
Silver: Trace element.
Titanium: Oil additive, trace element.
Potassium: Antifreeze inhibitor, additive in some oil types.
Silicon: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, antifreeze inhibitors.
Sodium: Antifreeze inhibitors, additive in some gasoline engine oils.
You'll need your client ID if you want to log on to www.blackstone-labs.net and view your reports.
This is the average wear for this particular type of engine for you and your business.
Titanium: Trace element.

 

[OilfieldRoughneck]

Above post is from black stone labs website. It's a basic explanation of sample results. Copper can be a bad sign

 

[MidnightDuramax]

I know that typically high copper and iron in trans fluid means clutch wear. What I am tryin to figure out is what a "normal" or high level is. From all the oil analysis websites I have looked at a one time sample and test such as GP does is useless. It seems that what you look for is any kind of change with regular sampling. So I am trying to figurer out if there is any valuable info to be had from GP oil analysis.

 

[Blackmagic94]

I just look for no traces of anti freeze or water lol.

 

[Terrh]

All I do is compared to other trucks for sale and look for anything dramatically different than the rest.

 

[Rmtaunton]

It's really impossible to say as you don't know when fluids were changed , 500 parts ppm is 1 10,000 of a percent but at same time oil could have been changed 1 hour before of actually run time

 

[fuzzytoaster]

You also have to factor in hot vs cold sample for these tests as they will vary greatly. It still comes down to the gamble at the end of the day.

 

[Tinwoodsman]

Elements are quantified in the oil at part per million levels (PPM). This list shows the most common sources of the elements in a gasoline or diesel engine oil.
This is a good place to identify things like bypass filtration, mods, etc.
Aluminum: Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks).
Chromium: Rings, a trace element in steel.
Iron: Cylinders, rotating shafts, the valve train, and any steel part sharing the oil.
Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Lead: Bearings.
Tin: Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings.
Molybdenum: Anti-wear additive, some types of rings.
Nickel: Trace element in steel, platings on some cylinder types.
Manganese: Trace element, additive in gasoline.
Silver: Trace element, some types of bearings.
Titanium: Trace wear metal, additive in some brands of oil.
Potassium: Antifreeze, additive in some oil types.
Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitors.
Silicon: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, sand-casted parts, spray lubricants, antifreeze inhibitor.
Sodium: Antifreeze, additive in some gasoline engine oils.
Calcium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
Phosphorus: Anti-wear additive.
Zinc: Anti-wear additive.
Barium: Detergent/dispersant additive.
You'll need your client ID if you want to sign in to My Reports and view your results.
The amount of oil you added between oil changes.
This is the average wear for this particular type of engine for you or your business.
From left to right, these are your past samples.
This column shows average wear for all the samples we've seen from this type of engine.

The additives in this column are a mix of all different types of oil, so you can't compare them to your sample.
Viscosity/Flashpoint: If fuel or a solvent is present in the oil, the Viscosity (grade of the oil) and Flashpoint will often be lower than stated on the "Should Be" line. On the other hand, a high viscosity may show oil oxidation or high levels of soot. It can also show an oil additive in use.
Antifreeze %: A question mark means we found possible trace of coolant, but not enough to definitively say it's there.
Water: Indicates the amount of moisture found in the oil.
Insolubles: Solids formed by oxidation of the oil and blow-by past the rings.
Unit ID: This is how you want to identify the engine--for example, "99 Ford" or "Big Blue."
Code: For internal use only.
Viscosity, flashpoint, % fuel and antifreeze, % water and insolubles are all measured in gasoline and diesel engine oils. If fuel is present in the oil, the viscosity and flashpoint will often be lower than what was stated in the "Should be" line. Insolubles are solid material that is centrifuged out of the oil. They are typically free carbon from the oxidation of the oil itself, along with blow-by past the rings.
Aluminum: Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks).
Molybdenum: Anti-wear additive, coating on some new rings (washes off as break-in occurs).
Nickel: Trace element in steel.
Silver: Trace element.
Titanium: Oil additive, trace element.
Potassium: Antifreeze inhibitor, additive in some oil types.
Silicon: Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, antifreeze inhibitors.
Sodium: Antifreeze inhibitors, additive in some gasoline engine oils.
You'll need your client ID if you want to log on to www.blackstone-labs.net and view your reports.
This is the average wear for this particular type of engine for you and your business.
Titanium: Trace element.

You make it very tough to read when you post in black.

 

[turnkey]

So get a oil and filter change...There all done.

 

[honor first]

So get a oil and filter change...There all done.

I think OP is looking for an answer as far as the sample results being indicative of a problem, wear or tear beyond normal, etc. Which in reality can't be answered with certainty. Buying a MIL surplus item is like buying an ex-police car at auction; always a roll of the dice.

 

[OilfieldRoughneck]

You make it very tough to read when you post in black.

Sorry, copy paste. I did it from my iPad. Not sure how to change color.

 

[OilfieldRoughneck]

I think OP is looking for an answer as far as the sample results being indicative of a problem, wear or tear beyond normal, etc. Which in reality can't be answered with certainty. Buying a MIL surplus item is like buying an ex-police car at auction; always a roll of the dice.

True, I just look for anything way above normal. Compared to other trucks at that location with similar miles. So yea, a crap shoot

 

[greenjeepster]

The single test doesn't really give you anything useful. You can use it as a baseline for follow up once you get the rig home and drive it some.

Like posted above; watch for water and glycol, the rest doesn't really tell you much. I have yet to see a truck on GP with water and glycol present, but do see plenty without oil analysis. Those be the ones that came back with water and glycol

 

[Gunzy]

If they don't sample from the bottom if the engine has not run in a while you won't get water or glycol as the oil floats on it. Basically never spend more than you can afford to lose. Saw an M923A2 close at $12600 yesterday and I think that is way to high, but some people have more money to blow on a pretty paint job. I prefer an ugly trcuk that is mechanicaly sound myself.

 

[MaiNiaK]

Also always change the tranny fluid after purchase. The military doesn't always use the preferred fluid in these transmissions. Allison calls for Dex 3 for on road or C-4 for off road purpose (still a Dex 3 fluid). The military often uses 15-40 motor oil, which Allison does give temperature operating references for but does not specify as an optimal fluid to use. I believe they use this for higher temperature zones like Afghanistan or Iraq. This can cause your transmission to shift hard in lower gears while cold and give you the impression there is something wrong, even though once the fluid gets warm it shifts fine and has no transmission trouble codes.

 

[tennmogger]

The oil test company I use, Blackstone, always gives comparisons to other engines they have tested. If you have any value out of normal range they flag it for you. This makes a one-shot test useful, as for testing a vehicle just purchased. Of course it's better to follow up with occasional tests to watch for changes.

Bob

 

[DrillerSurplus]

I found this TM a couple of months ago when I was trying to evaluate the oil sample results Gov Planet. It is a current TM as of 2013 and breaks out normal/abnormal ranges by individual engine and transmission models.

View attachment TM 38-301-4 OIL ANALYSIS AFD-131125-105.pdf

Below is an image of cover page and a list of the different names the different services have for it.

(ARMY) TM 38-301-4
(NAVY) NAVAIR 17-15-50.4
(AIR FORCE) T.O. 33-1-37-4
(COAST GUARD) TO 33-1-37-4

 

[dk8019]

Drillersurplus,

Thanks, that's a very handy bit of info!

 

[RC000E]

Copper and iron levels are always present in transmission fluid as wear takes place. As these elements accumulate, that is what prompts fluid and filter changes. You see a good bit of initial wear in the fluids during break in period. With many of those trucks having essentially no miles on them, the elevated levels really don't say much about anything. Overall, I think you just have to choose your truck based on every factor, not just one particular factor. If the mileage, hours and overall appearance tell you it seems in good order, the mechanicals are quite likely fine. With no mileage, the fact that these trucks have been sitting so much during their lifespan is going to be more detrimental than anything. Frankly, I say you buy a truck that runs and overall checks out right, and roll the dice. Like someone else said, slightly rough body, but runs good during the expection...good enough.