• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

M923a2 war wagon

dilligaf13

dilligaf13

Active member
563
33
28
Location
south, florida
The MK19 was trash over there. I recommend .50 primary with M240 seconday weapon setup. We ran that setup on our number 2 and 3 vehicles and it took care of businesses.
 
Csm Davis

Csm Davis

Well-known member
4,166
393
83
Location
Hattiesburg, Mississippi
dilligaf13 said:
The MK19 was trash over there. I recommend .50 primary with M240 seconday weapon setup. We ran that setup on our number 2 and 3 vehicles and it took care of businesses.
Click to expand...
I would like to hear more about the Mk19 not trying to argue but I loved using them in the Corps back in Desert Storm era. Did you have reliably issues or as I have heard from some tankers didn't like ammo?
 
dilligaf13

dilligaf13

Active member
563
33
28
Location
south, florida
The MK19 was neat, when it would work. It's rounds didn't penetrate very well and the ever present "grit" in Iraq caused constant malfunctions. Plus the nature of the MK19 makes it ill suited for targeting a select individual, its more suited for targeting a general area. The talcum powder like sand everywhere made it so that even our mini required PMCS every time we left the house. The .50 was a workhorse and I've watched that thing chew up small pebbles that would get caught in its belt links (the .50 chews up people too).
 
Csm Davis

Csm Davis

Well-known member
4,166
393
83
Location
Hattiesburg, Mississippi
dilligaf13 said:
The MK19 was neat, when it would work. It's rounds didn't penetrate very well and the ever present "grit" in Iraq caused constant malfunctions. Plus the nature of the MK19 makes it ill suited for targeting a select individual, its more suited for targeting a general area. The talcum powder like sand everywhere made it so that even our mini required PMCS every time we left the house. The .50 was a workhorse and I've watched that thing chew up small pebbles that would get caught in its belt links (the .50 chews up people too).
Click to expand...
Yes the fifty does well I don't ever dispute it I love the 50. But I like the 19 for the very reason that you and the tankers list as a fault it is not a pinpoint weapon, but I think it is unequaled as a small arm used by a single person at suppressing the enemy in an area, the pinpoint needs can be handled by the M60's.
As to cleaning every time out yeah but that's SOP or was back in the day
 
M

mustang1928

New member
11
0
0
Location
Georgetown, IN
Not a Gun Truck

IMG_0296.jpgIMG_0298.jpgIMG_0296.jpgIMG_0298.jpg Your truck is not a gun truck. This is my 5 Ton with the ring mount legs still attached. They were also used for cargo baskets. These were retro kits. If your truck doesn't have an armored cab it's not a Gun Truck. I have seen some armored cab 5 ton trucks come up in actions and all had to be destroyed/de-milled prier to removal from the auction site
 
smittyjr355

smittyjr355

Member
154
1
16
Location
Lennon, MI
mustang1928 said:
View attachment 689539View attachment 689540View attachment 689539View attachment 689540 Your truck is not a gun truck. This is my 5 Ton with the ring mount legs still attached. They were also used for cargo baskets. These were retro kits. If your truck doesn't have an armored cab it's not a Gun Truck. I have seen some armored cab 5 ton trucks come up in actions and all had to be destroyed/de-milled prier to removal from the auction site
Click to expand...
I'm going to disagree with you saying that a gun truck has to be armored. Here is a truck I parted out that was not armored and was clearly a gun truck, not to mention the couple hundred shell casings and belt clips I found while tearing it apart.
IMG_0234.JPGIMG_0238.JPGIMG_0239.JPGIMG_0240.JPG
 
smittyjr355

smittyjr355

Member
154
1
16
Location
Lennon, MI
mustang1928 said:
I'm not going to argue with you. It's not worth my time. Have nice day and cut and paste the ebay link. Educate yourself...https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...ruck+books.TRS0&_nkw=gun+truck+books&_sacat=0
Click to expand...
You say you don't want to argue, its not worth your time, but here you are pulling up a 2 year old thread telling the CSM Davis his truck is not a gun truck. Then you send me a link to a book and tell me to educate myself. So this truck is not a gun truck either because it doesn't have armored cab and just a sheet of steel covering the window that is mounted to the LWS? What did they do before they had these armored cabs? They just didnt have gun trucks because a book says so??
5 Ton Gun Truck 1.jpg
 
jeffhuey1n

jeffhuey1n

SMSgt, USAF (Ret.)
Steel Soldiers Supporter
1,890
1,480
113
Location
Laramie County, Wyoming
Hi, I hope I can assist you in questions or concerns about gun trucks. I am no expert on Gun Trucks. My specialty/AFSC/MOS was helicopter maintenance. I did a bunch of research on Vietnam War gun trucks before I actually started work on my own gun truck. My M35A2 "War Wagon", is built to replicate 2 1/2 ton gun trucks of that war. The construction of a gun truck from the Vietnam War was two fold. First, a task truck was removed from standard hauling duties and second, the truck was modified using, in most cases, locally procured armor and weaponry was used to make it into a "hardened vehicle" tasked with protecting convoys, work sites, base perimeter defense and anything else they were tasked with. Going forward to Desert Shield/Desert Storm and gun trucks, once again, were slapped together with whatever armor could be found. Did they haul regular cargo? I can't answer that but I suspect their cargo hauling was limited or eliminated so the crew could focus on its job, protecting our forces wherever and whenever they were needed. Bouncing up thru the years between DS/DS and the post 9/11 conflicts, I suspect the trucks were up-armored with locally procured armor and guns and sent out on the road. Now, what's the big deal? I don't see a problem calling the trucks in this thread gun trucks. If that is what they were called over there, then that's just the way it is. Every conflict has to relearn the mistakes of past conflicts, find solutions based on current technology and then implement solutions based on the threat levels in-theater. So, is the CSM's truck a gun truck? Based on its mission requirements and operational duties, I'd say yes, it's a gun truck.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
vtdeucedriver

vtdeucedriver

Well-known member
2,523
38
48
Location
Vermont
jeffhuey1n said:
Hi, I hope I can assist you in questions or concerns about gun trucks. I am no expert on Gun Trucks. My specialty/AFSC/MOS was helicopter maintenance. I did a bunch of research on Vietnam War gun trucks before I actually started work!on my own gun truck. My M35A2 "War Wagon", is built to replicate 2 1/2 ton gun trucks of that war. The construction of a gun truck from the Vietnam War was two fold. First, a task truck was removed from standard hauling duties and second, the truck was modified using, in most cases, locally procured armor and weaponry was used to make it into a "hardened vehicle" tasked with protecting convoys, work sites, base perimeter defense and anything else they were tasked with. Going forward to Desert Shield/Desert Storm and gun trucks, once again, were slapped together with whatever armor could be found. Did they haul regular cargo? I can't answer that but I suspect their cargo hauling was limited or eliminated so the crew could focus on its job, protecting our forces wherever and whenever they were needed. Bouncing up thru the years between DS/DS and the post 9/11 conflicts, I suspect the trucks were up-armored with locally procured armor and guns and sent out on the road. Now, what's the big deal? I don't see a problem calling the trucks in this thread gun trucks. If that is what they were called over there, then that's just the way it is. Every conflict has to relearn the mistakes of past conflicts, find solutions based on current technology and then implement solutions based on the threat levels in-theater. So, is the CSM's truck a gun truck? Based on its mission requirements and operational duties, I'd say yes, it's a gun truck.
Click to expand...
Your headed in the right direction with this thought and someone has done their homework as that gun box looks really good. Would love to see more pics. Ive been doing research on the transportation units in Vietnam since 1997 and your definition of "gun truck" is correct that a task vehicle is removed from hauling cargo and modified for the use of the "hardened concept" that was created in 1967 by Col. Joe Bellino. The term of gun truck does not fit to a truck that has its gun ring and a .50 Mounted on it with some light armor added to the cab. Now comes the Iraq war and a convoy gets ambushed and only one soldier survived, the veterans of the Vietnam war transportation units were outraged and could not believe that the lessons learned in Vietnam were forgotten by our military. A small group of vets worked hand in hand with Livermore Labs and a gun box was created to make the 2nd generation gun box.
 
Csm Davis

Csm Davis

Well-known member
4,166
393
83
Location
Hattiesburg, Mississippi
mustang1928 said:
Your truck is not a gun truck. This is my 5 Ton with the ring mount legs still attached. They were also used for cargo baskets. These were retro kits. If your truck doesn't have an armored cab it's not a Gun Truck. I have seen some armored cab 5 ton trucks come up in actions and all had to be destroyed/de-milled prier to removal from the auction site
Click to expand...
Dear mustang I am not asking if my truck had a LWS, IT DID, I am asking the gentlemen that have Vietnam era gun trucks if they believe that the convoy escort trucks from the late 80's the 90's would be considered as gun trucks of that era. As to your contention that most of the 939 series trucks that have the legs and cab reinforcements were just for a storage shelf I call B.S. I served in this era and have driven and cut up more of these trucks than you will ever see, and not one of them had a storage shelf. The reason for the legs and no LWS left up top is because the LWS is supposed to be removed before the truck is sold to the public, if it were a plain shelf we would have left it on the trucks. Yeah I said we because I actually helped remove most of the LWS from the 3500 trucks at Camp Shelby.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
110,897members
165,315threads
2,326,244posts
1,638online users
Top