m105 or Deuce springs

[Retiredwarhorses]

Going to start a Bob on an M35....I have a donor M105 and planned on using the bed and springs...but I'm getting differing opinions on the springs....M105 or front deuce springs? What are the advantges and disadvantages, other the obvious load ratings.

 

[dilligaf13]

The M35 front springs are a direct fitment and require only the drilling of the holes for the spring hanger to mount on the M35 frame. If I remember correctly the M105 springs require the M105 frame to be sectioned and placed on the M35 frame, to get the correct lift needed, or a 4" lift block. I guess it depends on what you have on hand.

http://www.xm381.com/xm381/How_To/Pages/The_Great_Spring_Debate.html

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Not sure what you mean "sectioned". The web page just appears to show 105 springs drilled and attached.

 

[Recovry4x4]

The 105 springs are attached to the side of the frame. If you take the mounts off the trailer and attach them to the deuce frame, the back is going to sit low. If you take the trailer frame and just lop it off in front of and behind the springpack and add that whole section under the deuce frame, It will sit closer to level. I like this method as it offers a wider spring stance but I would box and brace the trailer frame before the install. Other than that, the springs themselves are nearly identical with the exception of the helper leaf.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?44800-Another-way-to-Bob-a-Deuce!&highlight=

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Ahhh. I see, but that appears to have been a one off....I see that it is mentioned about flipping the hubs, do I have to do this for ZZL 1400's from an M923, Not a big deal, or is there an adapter?

 

[dilligaf13]

The 105 springs are attached to the side of the frame. If you take the mounts off the trailer and attach them to the deuce frame, the back is going to sit low. If you take the trailer frame and just lop it off in front of and behind the springpack and add that whole section under the deuce frame, It will sit closer to level. I like this method as it offers a wider spring stance but I would box and brace the trailer frame before the install. Other than that, the springs themselves are nearly identical with the exception of the helper leaf.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?44800-Another-way-to-Bob-a-Deuce!&highlight=

Kenny beat me to it, again...

 

[Recovry4x4]

There have been quite a few folks use the frame section like that. As far as the tires and hub flips, that will all be dependent on the rims that you choose.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Any thoughts on rim types for flipped vs not flipped?
I was told that there are adapters for some rims.

 

[3dAngus]

This is the bobber with 395s, aluminum rims, rear has the hubs flipped, and there is no rub on the front.
All four wheels have adapters.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Looks sweet, who sells the adapter? And what rims and tires are those off of..HEMMT?

anoter question, can I reuse the U-Bolts from the m105 and add the 4in block? Or I do need longer U-bolts?

 

[Piper Cub]

Looks sweet, who sells the adapter? And what rims and tires are those off of..HEMMT?

anoter question, can I reuse the U-Bolts from the m105 and add the 4in block? Or I do need longer U-bolts?

Never used the parts to bob a truck, but all the 105's I've parted out have only had about 1 inch past the nut left on the u bolts so you'll probably need longer ones.

 

[KsM715]

The u-bolts won't work. 105 axle is a round tube and the deuce is square.

 

[3dAngus]

Looks sweet, who sells the adapter? And what rims and tires are those off of..HEMMT?

anoter question, can I reuse the U-Bolts from the m105 and add the 4in block? Or I do need longer U-bolts?

I dont know what specific vehicle. They are commonly known as MRAP 395s.
Peashooter has been building these adapters for years and is now closing out his inventory. I need one of his adapters for a spare tire, and he wants to sell all 7 or 8 at once so if you buy, I'll buy one from you or him.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

If found some 395's on MRAP aluminum rims...24bolts for s good deal. Peashooter is out of adapters, found some on epay that are 1/2in steel, CNC machined. So I'm done on that part....also,going to go with front deuce springs.

i was told the 12 bolt MRAP rims are steel, the aluminum are 24 bolt and are a better rim...just what I've been told.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

I'm going with front springs...deuceman51 is setting me up. Question....I see a lot of folks refer to moving the rear forward for the "Bob", does it make a difference? Both axles are the same...unless I'm wrong.
i have the rear axles busted loose...so I'm ready for springs. 395's are enroute with adapters.
getting those rivets out on the bottom was fun....thank got for my plasma cutter...and a forklift.

 

[dilligaf13]

Axles are the same, so it doesn't matter which you use.

 

[tobyS]

I'll resurrect this thread to point out a couple of things that my 4x4 project has revealed to me. I used M105 springs and frame mounts, cleaning every leaf, buffing sharp ends off the end of each leaf and adding an overload air bag.

The springs of an M105 and the front springs of a deuce are exactly the same spring... the difference is frame mounts. The deuce frame spring mount is down under the frame and thus the frame sets higher....but is narrower. The M105 mount is essentially on the outside of the frame and makes the rear end set lower unless other frame is made to raise it. I like the stability of a wider spring....and had the 105 frame and suspension. I did not use the M105 frame under the truck, I made a deeper frame.

The round U bolts on the 105 are replaced with large square ones. I used the torch to remove them and have some great half circles to weld for tie downs.

Comparing the springs of the many M105's that I have had to the springs on the front of my deuce is shocking. The springs, unless there is a built in difference in the curvature, show extreme wear of my A3 deuce. The springs on all of the 105's look new in comparison to my 97 A3. My guess is that the rebuild program of old A2's made into A3's used used springs.

So the point being....if you have a deuce with flattened front springs...get the springs from an M105 for the front to replace your worn out ones.

I put a plate along the frame that is 3" lower than the frame. It has slightly taller perches to bring it up too. It's ended about 2.5" higher at the rear axle than the front. When I replace the front springs with the much better condition M105 springs, I should gain about 2' of height and can make it so a front snow blade or crane is not taking the axle to the stops...maybe use 1-2 leafs from the overload to add a couple of leafs in the main pack. I may check out having bags on the front too as an A frame front crane will really pull it down trying to carry much.

Edit....I'm going to show you my mistake....it's going 3" longer on the bottom of the frame. I'm adding the photo of my solution to the bolt being right in the curve on the deuce C frame. A word of advise to someone doing a similar frame mod....go 2 " or 4-5", not 3"....unless you like dealing with the curve.