How to measure BIG Voltage

[Artisan]

So what's happening in that video I posted then?

There is a 110V LG washer machine pancake motor turning another
washer machine motor w/ a 6.2:1 planetary in front of it. When
turned on the man says the 3 poles are generating 280V EACH.
But how can that be? There is only 110V being used to power the LG?
Is there an amplification process going on? I think so!

I guess you could call him a liar, but if you watch many of his videos
and see exactly what all he is doing you will really start to question
all these "laws" that we have been taught, laws of "old"? I might add.

I wish I were not such an electrical dunce and had the pocket$ too, so I could
replicate what some of these people are doing for myself, that experiment in particular, and that is
exactly what a lot of people are doing and they all seem to be
coming to the SAME conclusions. Maybe they all are quacks?
If so that is a LOT of quacks all quacking about the same quacked up thing.

I wish I could drop about $1000 tomorrow buying those parts
he is using, then make my own bracketry. Alas I am
not that $trong. Now remove the 110Volts powering
that LG motor and put wind blades on it, wait, are
we not already getting something for nothing w/ wind
powered generators? Where are all those laws of old now?

How much power is being produced at Hoover Dam?
Now go find out how much power the elec co. is billing for!
Dollars to donuts the elec company is charging for
WAY MORE power than what the dam is producing, right?
How do you explain that? Well, the elec company is either
the biggest thief known to man (cough cough) or they
know something we don't.

No ballz, no blue chips.

Personally I applaud those whom push boundaries.

Don't forget, the world is flat too! ...and I am sure there are
a lot of other like examples.

Punt...

 

[tommys2patrick]

Many took chances that they did not know about. Some survived, some did not. I give a ton of credit to those that did the early experimenting. For myself, I choose to error on the side a of abundant caution . I've been a contractor in the construction trades for close to thirty years....seen to many "accidents" that the participants had NO intention of being in! Not a fan of becoming a human "pork rind"......just my two cents....

No argument here. Over my working career I have been personal witness to a number of electrical tragedies. Electricity scares me and I consider that a healthy reaction for me. Although Most lineman that I have worked with over the years have told me that you can't be afraid of electricity and work around it. Most folks that work around electricity have respect for it but face the fear and move on. Pretty much true in any endeavor that requires assessing a potentially deadly risk and making a choice whether to move forward or not. It could be working around high voltage, carrying a gun into battle, or perhaps operating an old MV but its a similar choice. I definitely appreciate your two cents and hope others do as well.

 

[VPed]

The "amplification" is to the voltage, yes. But at the same time, there is a reduction in amperage available by at least the same ratio as the amplification. I say at least because as stated before, there are always losses.

What should be measured is power in watts (volts times amps, generally). In the setup described, input power equals output power minus losses. Therefore, there is more power going in than what is available on the output side.

 

[marchplumber]

No argument here. Over my working career I have been personal witness to a number of electrical tragedies. Electricity scares me and I consider that a healthy reaction for me. Although Most lineman that I have worked with over the years have told me that you can't be afraid of electricity and work around it. Most folks that work around electricity have respect for it but face the fear and move on. Pretty much true in any endeavor that requires assessing a potentially deadly risk and making a choice whether to move forward or not. It could be working around high voltage, carrying a gun into battle, or perhaps operating an old MV but its a similar choice. I definitely appreciate your two cents and hope others do as well.

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but the assessment that something else is more important than the fear." F.D. Roosevelt. .......everyone has fears except the mentally incompetent. Courage is facing them and goin forward.

 

[tim292stro]

"A fool and his money are soon parted..."

Cold radiation my @$$. He's using a standard clamp-type ammeter WAYYYY outside its design voltage range (good thing he used a jacketed wire on the HV lead). And measuring a highly reflective ceramic insulator with an IR thermometer that needs a dead-flat black-body-emitter to be most accurate, is a demonstration of either how completely moronic these guys are (and how convinced they are of their own genius), or how brilliant they are as charlatans.

So what's happening in that video I posted then?...

They have completely no idea about how massive country sized power grids work. Also funny to hear them say at 20:35 "...a loss of what 5%, 10% of the energy..." and then turn around and treat that loss as a gain. Loss of 5-10% is an efficiency of 90-95%, not 105-110% - less than the whole is transmitted.

50kva is 50kW assuming a power factor of 1.0 - 50kW with 120V would be 416.666Amps This is just the rating of the transformer. 25kva again is the RATING of the transformer - has nothing to do with how it's used. The most important spec about the transformer he left out and that's how many winds each side of the transformer coil has know as the turns ratio - at he does say at 18:10 that the HV side of the 20kva transformer is 14kV, so we can deduce that the smaller transformer is 116:1.

What he's done is take a 4HP generator (type "4HP to kw" into google search...), which can put out about 2400Watts (2400W / 120V = 20Amps) He will never blow the fuse on that generator, as he has probably put in a fuse rated higher than what it shipped with (thereby negating any safety the fuse would have provided). At 18:30 he says he's feeding it with 2800watts (23.333Amps) - he'll never blow the fuse.

You hear the saw... first, realize this is an unloaded saw. Start cutting with it and you will see it go to rating in wattage - otherwise the saw only needs to overcome the friction of the bearings, and the wind resistance of the blade itself (much less than 1Amp). When they start turning on heaters, the saw revs drop noticeably, that is because the output voltage of the transformer is dropping under the load (and so is the generator, which he bypassed the safety device on) - so the VOLTAGE (which he doesn't measure) drops as well as the FREQUENCY. AC motors/generators are designed to have so many poles, poles count to frequency will give you revs. If the poles stay the same, and you mess with either the frequency or revs of the input it'll affect the output.


The arrogance is amazing: "...If you disagree with this just shut up and sit on a fence like you have all your life!!!..."
"...Someone has to prove to me that there's no such thing as cold radiation..."
I think Wheelspinner's avatar says it best: "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

"...Amplification is not something that can be measured with numbers..."
120V x (116:1)turns = 13.92kV... There I measured it for you, with numbers...


Artisan, keep your money. Life is difficult, a life without struggle would be as pointless as one of those Kardashians. If everything were easy and free, we'd all live in mansions on our own private islands driving our personal MRAPs around and never have to worry about other people fighting. Life isn't like that. We have to work for every ounce we get (it has to be earned not simply have it show up), often times it costs people lives (civilian/military), and in the most developed areas we still have people at the top who stand on the heads of those below them.

It was nice to hear more of the same echo chamber crap I hear from people out here in California.

"Give peace a chance," only works if all parties agree by the way - and until someone comes up with an energy storage system that is as efficient in space/weight/capacity as petroleum, we aren't going away from it (and yes that is a >DARPA-hard problem).

 

[tommys2patrick]

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but the assessment that something else is more important than the fear." F.D. Roosevelt. .......everyone has fears except the mentally incompetent. Courage is facing them and goin forward.

I have worked with the mentally incompetent and I can tell you they have fear as well. I understand what you are saying though. In my opinion, what they "seem" to lack sometimes is the ability to perform appropriate decision making. Stupid people sometimes suffer from the same condition.

I guess we are roaming off the original topic. My fault for getting too philosophical I suppose. Good topic of discussion though. Thanks Tony, hope its OK to call you that as we have not really met in person before.

 

[swbradley1]

I guess you could call him a liar, but if you watch many of his videos
and see exactly what all he is doing you will really start to question
all these "laws" that we have been taught, laws of "old"? I might add.

I'm a firm believer of old laws, especially the one on gravity.

Laws of Thermodynamics are a b1tch to snake oil salesman.

If you want to solve the world's energy problems (or your own) start with inventing a super efficient solar cell say in the 95% range and then invest in Thorium reactors.

 

[pjwest03]

So what's happening in that video I posted then?


I wish I could drop about $1000 tomorrow buying those parts
he is using, then make my own bracketry. Alas I am
not that $trong. Now remove the 110Volts powering
that LG motor and put wind blades on it, wait, are
we not already getting something for nothing w/ wind
powered generators? Where are all those laws of old now?

How much power is being produced at Hoover Dam?
Now go find out how much power the elec co. is billing for!
Dollars to donuts the elec company is charging for
WAY MORE power than what the dam is producing, right?
How do you explain that? Well, the elec company is either
the biggest thief known to man (cough cough) or they
know something we don't.

No ballz, no blue chips.

Personally I applaud those whom push boundaries.

Don't forget, the world is flat too! ...and I am sure there are
a lot of other like examples.

Punt...

Well, the wind is also primarily powered by the Sun. The collecting that energy may seem "free" to us but the Sun's hydrogen fuel is being consumed to provide that energy.

And, the Hoover Dam provides about 4 billion kilowatt hours of power each year. It's rated capacity is around 2080 megawatts. Just a smidge under 3,000,000 horsepower.

 

[m16ty]

I've worked within the power system on various projects. After seeing what all it takes to get power to your home, it's a wonder they can do it a cheaply as they can. From what I've seen, these are not big greedy power companies trying to milk the consumer for all they are worth. They are just trying to stay profitable with the cost of doing business and the EPA breathing down their neck. Sure, there is waste but there is no big conspiracy here.

As Steve said, if somebody could come up with a solar panel that was anywhere near efficient, that would be a game changer.

 

[tim292stro]

...start with inventing a super efficient solar cell say in the 95% range...

And for reference as to how much work and difficulty there is in that gauntlet throw, the most efficient solar cells in ideal lab conditions are about 45% - put those in a panel and it drops to below 32%. The typical internal combustion engine is around 30-37% efficient.

 

[The HUlk]

Hi Artisan. I really like your posts. You have a unique talent for asking seemingly simple questions for which there is not a simple answer.

So what's happening in that video I posted then?

I have not watched the video. However I believe I can explain some of what is going on based on the comments here and what I have seen in the past with folks claiming to have discovered new methods of extracting energy.

The short version is: Claims of greatly improved energy efficiency without proper scientific verification to back up those claims.

I wish I were not such an electrical dunce

It is easy for folks who do not have a basic understanding of electricity to be deceived by folks claiming to have connected everyday items and discovered a new way to create energy from nothing, or to harvest energy with efficiencies that are greatly improved over current practices. Whether it is intentional or not doesn't change the truth.

the man says the 3 poles are generating 280V EACH. But how can that be? There is only 110V being used to power the LG? Is there an amplification process going on? I think so!

This is where a little education on electricity would change your mind. The ability to perform work is known as energy. Energy comes in many forms. There is gravitational energy which is what causes objects to move toward one another according to their amount of mass. Energy also comes in the form of radiated electromagnetic waves such as light, radio waves, ionizing(nuclear) waves, etc. Energy also comes in physical forms such as the kinetic energy of moving air in the wind or moving water in a river or driven spinning shaft in an engine. Magnetic flux or magnetism is another form of energy. Electrical energy is most commonly described as the flow of electrons or electric current. Electric current can be hard to imagine so I use water as example to help folks better understand. Electric current flowing through a wire can be compared to water flowing through a pipe. There are some important properties that determine how powerful that flowing water(electric current) is, or how much work can performed by that flowing water. Water pressure(electric voltage) is a key factor in how powerful the energy is. The amount of water flowing(ampeheres or amps) is the other key factor. When either pressure(voltage) or flow(amps) is increased within the pipe then more work can be done or more power(watts) is transferred. Watts = Volts X Amps. I promise that is the only math I will mention.

The extraordinary demonstration of inputting 120 volts into a device and getting three 280 volt outputs is now easy to understand. The water pressure(voltage) has been increased. However the flow(amps) has been reduced and is not being properly measured as previously mentioned. The extraordinary example is like taking the 3/4" water supply line into your house and splitting it into three separate smaller 1/8" lines. The pressure(voltage) will be increased, but the flow(amps) will be reduced yielding fewer gallons(watts) over a given period of time. And then claiming more work can be performed with it.

Dollars to donuts the elec company is charging for
WAY MORE power than what the dam is producing, right?
How do you explain that?

If this is truelly occurring and it is intentional then I would use one word to explain it: Fraud. Electricity bills are based on the amount of energy delivered which is measured in kilowatt hours by the electric meter. Much like the number of gallons of water is measured by the water meter. If you are being charged for more of something than was delivered then you deserve a refund. I say delivered because the utilities companies are not making energy or water. They are delivering it.

Personally I applaud those whom push boundaries.

I concur. Folks like Chuck Yeager who risked their lives pushing the envelope for the betterment of mankind are my heroes. Fortunately history is rich with these folks. They paved the way for us and folks like them are taking risks today to develop future methods which will improve the lives of generations to come. However I do not applaud folks who mislead others with unverified claims for fame, profit, or out of ignorance. Those who make remarkable claims bear the responsibility of verifying them. Extrodinary claims require extraordinary proof that they are in fact true.

 

[The HUlk]

i'm a firm believer of old laws, especially the one on gravity.

classic!

 

[The HUlk]

Well, the wind is also primarily powered by the Sun. The collecting that energy may seem "free" to us but the Sun's hydrogen fuel is being consumed to provide that energy.

And, the Hoover Dam provides... ...Just a smidge under 3,000,000 horsepower.

It would be interesting to know the horsepower of the sun by way of comparison? Then consider the horsepower of a galaxy such as our's, the mikly way?

 

[tim292stro]

https://ag.tennessee.edu/solar/Pages/What Is Solar Energy/Sun's Energy.aspx

Roughly: 6.00528156 × 10[SUP]26[/SUP] HP

 

[The HUlk]

https://ag.tennessee.edu/solar/Pages/What Is Solar Energy/Sun's Energy.aspx

Roughly: 6.00528156 × 10[SUP]26[/SUP] HP

That would be 600,528,126,000,000,000,000,000,000 HP for the power output of the sun.

And 60,052,812,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 HP for the power output of our galaxy based on the estimation of 100 billion stars.

Lots of energy to be had, delivering it is the tricky part.