California Title Registration Diesel Smog Law and GL loadout info for M35 Deuce 5 Ton

[NovacaineFix]

A CDL only helps to make things easier in California, but it gets tricky.

See if you have a CDL and are driving a MV, then LEO can take that as fact that your MV is a commercial vehicle and then must meet the new smog law listed at the beginning of this thread>>>http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...g-Law-and-GL-loadout-info-for-M35-Deuce-5-Ton


Best thing in California is to fit between the cracks and hide in the shadows

 

[quickfarms]

The problem with the drivers license in California is the wording in the vehicle code.

With a class C license you can drive a two axle vehicle with a gvw of 26,000 lbs or less. A three axle vehicle with a gvw of 6,000 or less (yes it says 6,000 lbs). The operative word is vehicle.

The non commercial class B is for house cars, motor homes,

The non commercial class B is for travel and non commercial live stock trailers.

By default a CDL is required to drive a duece or 5 ton.

 

[jesusgatos]

Someone on this forum shared an important discrepancy with me, might have been in this thread, about important differences in verbiage used to outline the limitations on use related to historical vehicles. DMV form says vehicles may only be used for parades and shows, while the vehicle code book says primarily. I argued this point with the CA dmv and they conceded. They agreed that their forms were wrong, and said they would be updated to match the language in the vehicle code book. This has not happened yet, and might not, but the bottom line is that the vehicle code book is that law to follow, and that says primarily, and that means the majority, which is 51% of the time, which means you can use a historically registered vehicle for a lot more than parades and shows. Legally.

 

[NovacaineFix]

Someone on this forum shared an important discrepancy with me, might have been in this thread, about important differences in verbiage used to outline the limitations on use related to historical vehicles. DMV form says vehicles may only be used for parades and shows, while the vehicle code book says primarily. I argued this point with the CA dmv and they conceded. They agreed that their forms were wrong, and said they would be updated to match the language in the vehicle code book. This has not happened yet, and might not, but the bottom line is that the vehicle code book is that law to follow, and that says primarily, and that means the majority, which is 51% of the time, which means you can use a historically registered vehicle for a lot more than parades and shows. Legally.

You are correct sir, the verbiage does kind of contradict itself from one publication to the other, so until it is corrected and fully enforced, I say drive on.

 

[NovacaineFix]

The problem with the drivers license in California is the wording in the vehicle code.

With a class C license you can drive a two axle vehicle with a gvw of 26,000 lbs or less. A three axle vehicle with a gvw of 6,000 or less (yes it says 6,000 lbs). The operative word is vehicle.

The non commercial class B is for house cars, motor homes,

The non commercial class B is for travel and non commercial live stock trailers.

By default a CDL is required to drive a duece or 5 ton.

Not saying your wrong, because the wording is so vague in California.

I researched it and wrote up a decent post about it. It may help, it may not.

Link>>http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...n-California&p=1785646&viewfull=1#post1785646

 

[tim292stro]

Indeed, the wording of the current CVC is what you want to bank on, not DMV docs or infographics which may have been editorialized (intentionally, or otherwise).

Really, I'd think about what you want to do first, and the develop a plan to make it happen. Bobbing a deuce or going historic are really the only "easy" options for a cargo-type truck here in California. The other options are Commercial, or Housecar (RV).

Outside of that we could start a politics thread on getting some changes in the CVC to clear up definitions to our benefit (wouldn't it be awesome to have enabling MV laws in California of all places!), like what the RV lobby has done here.

 

[quickfarms]

Not saying your wrong, because the wording is so vague in California.

I researched it and wrote up a decent post about it. It may help, it may not.

Link>>http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...n-California&p=1785646&viewfull=1#post1785646

The wording on what you are permitted to operate with a class C and a non commercial class A and B is very cut and dry. Those sections do not have any vague language in them.

 

[quickfarms]

California Title Registration Diesel Smog Law and GL loadout info for M35 Deu...

Indeed, the wording of the current CVC is what you want to bank on, not DMV docs or infographics which may have been editorialized (intentionally, or otherwise).

Really, I'd think about what you want to do first, and the develop a plan to make it happen. Bobbing a deuce or going historic are really the only "easy" options for a cargo-type truck here in California. The other options are Commercial, or Housecar (RV).

Outside of that we could start a politics thread on getting some changes in the CVC to clear up definitions to our benefit (wouldn't it be awesome to have enabling MV laws in California of all places!), like what the RV lobby has done here.

Stay away from commercial due to the carb regulations.

The first change that needs to be done is to remove the three axle 6,000 lbs gvw restriction.

Then the CDL issue needs to be clarified. All it would take is a statement saying that historic vehicles are considered recreational vehicles.

Another issue is to scale or not to scale?

 

[tim292stro]

This is what I meant by people driving out of class BTW. It's exceptionally common, but that doesn't make it right. It's also not the kind of thing where you just get a ticket, someone with the correct class would have to complete the trip, or the LEO could tow it (i.e., they won't let you move it - not much to stop you from just starting a high/low speed chase...).

It's the risk of a tow and storage fees that can make this very ugly...

 

[quickfarms]

A CDL only helps to make things easier in California, but it gets tricky.

See if you have a CDL and are driving a MV, then LEO can take that as fact that your MV is a commercial vehicle and then must meet the new smog law listed at the beginning of this thread>>>http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...g-Law-and-GL-loadout-info-for-M35-Deuce-5-Ton


Best thing in California is to fit between the cracks and hide in the shadows

Where did this come from?

I have never had an issue with a Leo assuming I was driving commercially because I have a CDL.

The carb regulations are based on the use of the vehicle.

Now if you have a load of lumber, firewood or other cargo on the vehicle they would question it.

 

[NovacaineFix]

Currently in the process of registering my '70 M818 5-ton the same way as Blendmaster, so far everything has gone according to plans, which is good.

Originally, DMV wanted $709 per year in combined fees, most of which were weight fees,to register the 818, plus VIN verification, plus certified weigh certificate from a authorized weigh-master, then bring everything back to DMV with no "real" guarantee that they would process it to be legal.
View attachment 587044
This was after I asked to have it registered as "Historic", but the clerk at the DMV did not hear that part or was not familiar.

I have a local DMV registration office just blocks from my house, and I explained the entire situation to them. They were very helpful and did all the leg-work including the VIN verification, which was basically walking out to the truck and reading the data plate back to them. Took less than 5 minutes.

Cost, for me, was $396 that included all transfer/title fees plus the registration and also got the temporary red sticker for driving until I get word back from Sacramento.
Currently, unless I hear otherwise, I am legal to drive until the end of November or further if my plates and stickers come in the mail.

I will update if anything changes.

Well guess what happened today? Don't worry, it is nothing bad.

The DMV fairy stopped by my house and dropped of my Historical Plates for my 5-ton M818. So now I am 100% legal to drive on the roads of California.



I posted the registration slip minus my personal info to show how the State sees this vehicle. I went through a local registration service and gave them the following info about the 818.
Also notice the price difference with no weight fees attached, went from $709 to $104.

Year: 1970
Make: Kaiser Jeep
Model: M818 Tractor Truck
Milage: 27, 365
Weight: 19,000
Fuel: Diesel


Now the information is not the same as what I provided the registration service company, so I have to "assume" that whoever wrote up the registration took their own liberties or made a "best Guess".
Notice the word "Automobile" under the Type of vehicle use? This is important, because if I should ever get pulled over for driving a vehicle out of Class and a local LEO says that I must have a CDL to drive this vehicle, this is a sticking point for your case. [Case in point, the 3rd axle that everyone seems to point out as the immediate qualification for a CDL.]
The State of California does not recognize ANY vehicle as a commercial vehicle if it has Historical Plates and registration, hence the titling of Automobile.

Anyway, wanted to share and hope to provide some info for those who may be stuck in this situation as well.

 

[Styk33]

NovacaineFix, do you know what the paperwork looked like that was submitted to the DMV? There are options for autos and trucks on a a historic registration form. I would speculate (which I dislike doing) is if some commercial CHP pulled you over, that it could go further than the ticket and towing of the truck, as you could have falsified documents just to get your registration. Although, if you used a third party service, whatever paperwork you signed is going to be what holds you legally to your statement of fact that you submitted to get your registration (to the third party service).

I only mention this, as I am registering my truck next week and have been looking over the form and trying to decide what is best to do.

 

[NovacaineFix]

NovacaineFix, do you know what the paperwork looked like that was submitted to the DMV? There are options for autos and trucks on a a historic registration form. I would speculate (which I dislike doing) is if some commercial CHP pulled you over, that it could go further than the ticket and towing of the truck, as you could have falsified documents just to get your registration. Although, if you used a third party service, whatever paperwork you signed is going to be what holds you legally to your statement of fact that you submitted to get your registration (to the third party service).

I only mention this, as I am registering my truck next week and have been looking over the form and trying to decide what is best to do.

I see what you are saying and yes I did fill the form out correctly as I wanted to make sure that there wasn't any actions that could jeopardize the title and registration process. If anything, I provided more information that would clearly suggest that it is a truck, if not more, even the weight of 19,000 lbs.

The DMV service, which has been there for almost 30 years, is a reputable and right down the street from me, they performed the VIN verification as well. They made 100% sure that my M818 could have Historical Registration, because they could not find any documents or anything within the California Vehicle Code that would bar my truck from getting the registration. What they did, was took all the information to the DMV, I even included a picture of the data plate that indicates the weight, both full and empty, so that they could double-check to make sure that the proper registration was going to be granted.
After that, the information was sent to Sacramento for registration, no local DMV office that I am aware of can provide Historical Plates. So if there was a problem, Sacramento would have denied the registration and sent a letter to indicate as such.
The service I used, did State that Sacramento casts the final word and they get paid whether or not your truck gets registered or not. So with that said, it is more your responsibility not to falsify any of the documents, caus e it would only hurt you in the process and any further submissions.

So, I would suggest the use of a DMV service, just to have that 2nd pair of eyes going over your paperwork and looking for any errors or omitted information that could hurt your chances of getting properly registered.

 

[NovacaineFix]

Just a simple update about me getting my M818 all legalized.

My last post I reported that I received my Historical Plates from Sacramento, all that was missing was my title.
Just got my official California Title, all that is left is my insurance (don't worry moderators, not going to make it an insurance thread).

Now some interesting things to point out on the title, that maybe some of you guys can maybe help with, because simply I just don't know.

Before anyone comments, I provided the information as follows:
1970 Kaiser Jeep M818 Tractor Truck, the "State" has however made their own judgement so I am not sure what the letter designations actually mean


First listing is "Automobile"
VIN is correct
The Body Type Model is listed as "VA", Veterans Administration? I don't think so
No weight is listed, even though I reported the weight of about 19,000 lbs.
Fuel is listed as "G". Not sure why, because it is a diesel and was reported as such.
Class is listed as "AP", though I have no idea what that means except for Advanced Placement, but I am sure that is not the case here.

Take a look here, only omitted parts are my personal info.

 

[tim292stro]

There is a handy table on the back page of form REG31 (VIN verification form)

For automobiles, VA is the type for "Varied-All Other Autos"
For Commercial vehicles, VA is the type for "All Other Commercials"

Yes G indicates a motive power of gasoline - D should have been what they entered for a diesel.

AP is your Vehicle License Fee rate - that can be found in REG360. Reading into this table, it appears your rate is based on the purchase value of the vehicle - AP would be $2200-$2399.

 

[lordsporkton]

To readdress one of the original issues. I understand technically the law says unless historic, something like a 923(not capable of being an RV in its normal state), would have to have its engine replaced. Has anyone actually gone about doing this? Has anyone been required to do this? I heard from a local vendor here in socal that its not an issue for non-commercial use, it sounded like they simply overlook you or something. But does anyone have direct experience with a 5ton not registered historic here in socal?

 

[quickfarms]

To readdress one of the original issues. I understand technically the law says unless historic, something like a 923(not capable of being an RV in its normal state), would have to have its engine replaced. Has anyone actually gone about doing this? Has anyone been required to do this? I heard from a local vendor here in socal that its not an issue for non-commercial use, it sounded like they simply overlook you or something. But does anyone have direct experience with a 5ton not registered historic here in socal?

From what I have been told, just wait the state is working out the bugs on how to enforce the regulations.

 

[superdansilverman]

I'm looking at registering a 1960 M35 gasser in the Bay Area this year. Is there any CARB/SMOG regulations I need to look out for with the gas engine?

Thanks!

 

[NovacaineFix]

I'm looking at registering a 1960 M35 gasser in the Bay Area this year. Is there any CARB/SMOG regulations I need to look out for with the gas engine?

Thanks!

As long as you are not intending on using it as Commercial. Commercial use, whole different story.

Pretty much anything pre-1974 is a no brainer for no smog requirements on a gasser. So you're good to go!~!~

 

[CoreyKiefer]

CA owners
I just had a pleasant encounter with LA County Sheriffs who arrested me. Apparently, I'm not allowed to park my 5 ton with Historical Plates on the street, nor am I allowed to drive it. (from what parking enforcement says) She couldn't show me the code that states the vehicle MUST only be parked on private property.
I refused to open the rig for the tow truck, I told them to tow the truck how it sits and I get arrested for interfering lol.
From my understanding at the DMV, weight restrictions don't apply to historical registered vehicles. What about parking? I couldn't find anything in the vehicle code.