Is this a symptom of a problem or the possible cause?

[reaper556]

So today I finally get a chance to work on the 1028A1 I bought a month or so ago and I'm not sure what to make of this. I new the batteries were crapped out so today I put in a good set of batteries and think today she will run again but wrong. I turn the key forward and the WIF and Water in Fuel lights come on and the glow plug relay does it thing and then I turn the key forward all the way and nothing. I try to turn the engine over by hand with a breaker bar and no dice. I could have been doing something wrong though

I crawl under the truck to check the connections on the starter and a piece of metal catches my eye by the starter nose cone? I drop the inspection cover and this is what I find below.

Anyone care to guess what caused this? I'm wondering if this engine is indeed locked up and that's what caused the starter damage or is that damage signs of another problem that could cause my no start condition. As far as I can tell the flex plate isn't damaged. I'm just surprised I couldn't turn the engine with a breaker bar

 

[royalflush55]

I would take the starter off and see if the fly wheel will turn. Does it have the starter brace on the back of the starter to block?

 

[reaper556]

I would take the starter off and see if the fly wheel will turn. Does it have the starter brace on the back of the starter to block?

I will have to crawl back under and check for the brace however I'm unsure what exactly it looks like. I tried to break away the pieces of the starter nose to see if the engine would turn but I will have remove the starter

 

[NovacaineFix]

I would back up what Royal stated. It could be that the starter gear is jammed up into the flywheel locking the engine up (let's hope). That starter brace doesn't look like it does much, but in these engines it really does.
If that's the case, removing and replacing the starter with a brace would solve the issue.

Either way, you have to take that starter off. After it's off, make sure there are some teeth left on the flywheel. See if you can turn the engine over by hand, preferable by the flywheel, if you have a flywheel wrench or by the crank pulley bolt if not.

I'm hoping for you that it is just your starter.

Keep us updated.

 

[tobyS]

Once you have the starter off, use a large flat screwdriver and use it to pry and see of the crank turns. Pray first.

 

[reaper556]

I took these after I removed the inspection cover.

 

[tobyS]

So have you tried to turn the engine by the flex-plate gears? Why is the starter not off yet? Man it's only 10 o'clock on Saturday night--- what's wrong with your motivation?

 

[reaper556]

So have you tried to turn the engine by the flex-plate gears? Why is the starter not off yet? Man it's only 10 o'clock on Saturday night--- what's wrong with your motivation?

Haven't tried yet lol tomorrows another day.

 

[reaper556]

Dumb question and assumption but shouldn't that starter gear not be contacting the flywheel when the ignition is off and not in the full forward start position?

 

[Ue413]

No....the gear retracts when solenoid is not energized. Regardless, you shouldn't have broke the nose.

Do you know how long this starter was on the truck? You might need to shim the starter under mounting holes to achieve right starter gear to ring gear spacing.

 

[tobyS]

Dumb question and assumption but shouldn't that starter gear not be contacting the flywheel when the ignition is off and not in the full forward start position?

Not dumb at all...that's why I asked why it was not off already, of course with some humor. The armature could easily be pushed into the field coil and nothing turn.

 

[reaper556]

No....the gear retracts when solenoid is not energized. Regardless, you shouldn't have broke the nose.

Do you know how long this starter was on the truck? You might need to shim the starter under mounting holes to achieve right starter gear to ring gear spacing.

The nose came pre broke already. Appears to be the original starter. No wires are burnt that I can see and I noticed after the truck was delivered the starter relay was not attached to the bracket under dash but hanging down and its been replaced. I guess when that didn't fix the problem they decided to write it off and sell it

Not dumb at all...that's why I asked why it was not off already, of course with some humor. The armature could easily be pushed into the field coil and nothing turn.

At least that hopefully explains why I couldn't turn the engine over with a breaker bar. Drinking my morning pot of coffee now, soon as I'm fully fueled I'm heading out in the garage to drop the starter before we have to go to the in-laws house today

 

[tobyS]

At least that hopefully explains why I could turn the engine over with a breaker bar

Are you saying you got it to turn with the starter removed? You must have said your prayer.... because it was answered.

 

[reaper556]

Not dumb at all...that's why I asked why it was not off already, of course with some humor. The armature could easily be pushed into the field coil and nothing turn.

Are you saying you got it to turn with the starter removed? You must have said your prayer.... because it was answered.

Not yet, you were too quick on the draw, I noticed my spelling error and corrected it I guess after you quoted. I figure that's why I couldn't last night because the gear is jammed into the flywheel. I will know here shortly

 

[reaper556]

Ok guys said a little prayer removed the starter and I was able to turn the engine be the crank pulley with my bar. Definitely had a starter replacement in its past as this one has a reman tag. Possibly in 92 at TEAD when it was converted?

 

[royalflush55]

Ok, now you know it has the starter brace. Be sure and reinstall it along with both starter bolts NEW. I would look for a remand AC DELCO starter like you took off or take the one you took off to a reputable starter repair shop and let them go thru it and check it out. If relay under dash stuck and had starter run on this starter might not rebuild but a good starter shop can tell.

 

[reaper556]

Ok, now you know it has the starter brace. Be sure and reinstall it along with both starter bolts NEW. I would look for a remand AC DELCO starter like you took off or take the one you took off to a reputable starter repair shop and let them go thru it and check it out. If relay under dash stuck and had starter run on this starter might not rebuild but a good starter shop can tell.

Can they replace the broken nose piece? I found a guy local to me selling a brand new 27MT for $179 that seems like a decent deal.

I'm also pondering just switching to a 28MT gear reduction starter

 

[tobyS]

Most rebuild shops have the nose piece or can readily get it. Probably rebuild for half the new price above. I'm not convinced the armature didn't get into the field however. That's not a bad price for new...if it's really new, not just cleaned up.

 

[CUCVLOVER]

Can they replace the broken nose piece? I found a guy local to me selling a brand new 27MT for $179 that seems like a decent deal.

I'm also pondering just switching to a 28MT gear reduction starter

I'm running a gear reduction starter from hillbilly wizard and love it. It seems to draw less on my batteries, I've never had any smoking wires from extended crankin. Also the actual weight of the starter is less, so it's easier to Install, and some say you done need the bracket then, also the stock bracket won't fit so you can either buy or make the correct one or run without. I am very happy with the GR starter, it can be pricy but I am a true believer.

 

[Mainsail]

Somewhat related question:

Does the 6.2 need to be turned in only a certain direction when rotating the motor via the crank pulley? I ask because some engines should never be turned backwards as it causes the timing chain to skip off or some such.