So your thinking Expo FMTV .. Max height ??

[coachgeo]

hmmm.... some seem to say a rig designed for Over-landing use you might should stick to UNDER 11' better yet closer to 10' max. For Expedition/RVing travel there is usually an Alternate route to take so higher may work fine for that. (Example: bridges in OR have been reported to be where 11' is tight under some bridges)

Visual Candy to keep you wise when RV, Expo or Over-Landing.
. Fun at 11'8" bridge in Durham NC makes you hmmmm https://www.youtube.com/user/yovo68


Thus if thinking Overlanding build you might consider ...

In an LMTV with Electronics/communication box Total height is 3480mm = 11'5"


for Additional reference the Dump MTV with FOP total height @ dump's FOP is 2979mm = 9'9". Barely taller than cab.


Both:
. cab height 2845 = 9'4"
. Width total around 2438mm = 8'

It's been said Cargo Deck height is around 5' with support C channel Rail. For 10-11' box including roof racks, Solar Panels, AC, under box pivot frame etc, that makes:

. for a total 10' height that leaves only about 4'6"'? tall camp box After everything else?
. for a total 11' height, that leaves only about a 5'6" tall camp box after everything else ?


UPDATE: Revised wording to better clarify.

 

[aleigh]

If your definition of "expedition" means domestic (North American) travel, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you are DOT legal at 13'6. Reason being that even though there may be restrictions, there is always a way around, because commerce must be done.

In reality I've found you hit the trees off-road before you hit infrastructure (bridges or tunnels) in our country. Wheeling a rig that tall, at least out here in the Cascades, is an exercise in a chainsaw as I've discovered. This is why I keep the tarp & bows off unless I have a load, because it's that much shorter.

That said I have gotten jammed up and had to take detours a couple of times. Zion for example. I've also hit bridge limits on weight although this seems to be less of a problem than I would have guessed before I got the truck, because, I guess, to make a road they had to get a dozer there.

My plan is to put a S-280 on the back and head up to the arctic for a few months next year, and I am not worried about the height at all.

If "expedition" means terrible countries, I would worry first about the electrical lines. They don't seem to own extension ladders in third world countries so they run the utilities pretty low.

 

[coachgeo]

If your definition of "expedition" means domestic (North American) .travel, ...

To me; Expedition* travel is when one travels on and offroad in order reach tracks that at times requires 4wd. Also overhead Tree limbs and/or Rock Outcroppings are things you will probably encounter.

Anything else is RVing on paved and unpaved roads. Both Expo travel and RVing can take one to different climates. Nothing wrong with RVing. Enjoyed much family time as a kid doing that.


*UPDATE: Wise man in post below got me to see the wisdom to revise this. Over-Landing being the better term for what I initially termed Expo travel.

 

[aleigh]

I'm just trying to get a clear sense of what you mean, no judgment. Over-landing is another popular term.

 

[coachgeo]

I'm just trying to get a clear sense of what you mean, no judgment. Over-landing is another popular term.

no judgement taken or implied. Good point.... Overlanding seems to be a much better term for what I'm thinking. Will use that term from now on.

 

[aleigh]

On a tangent likewise a lot of guys seem to take "off-road" to mean "off-pavement" bladed (improved) dirt roads, like developed forest roads. I always personally took off-road to mean no-road (a track). I mean just about everyone thinks a gravel road is still a road, right. I guess what we do out here on the forest roads the brits call greenlaning, I think because of how they are marked on their maps or something. Personally, I say off-highway or cross-country, the latter of which probably makes sense only to people that have seen a CTIS panel or read a TM. I always wondered, what's the opposite of a hardball road? softball?

 

[coachgeo]

... I always wondered, what's the opposite of a hardball road? softball?

Good point lol...... one could say what kind of travel one chooses may be based one's size of balls Whatever the size does not matter in long run just enjoy. (notice: bad long pun not intended..... )

Now to steer back on target.

Angled/tapered roof edges seem to help for Overlanding clearance issues. Center of the Track/Trail is usually the highest point.

 

[aleigh]

What's the definition of success? ie, at what height is it unacceptable. Certainly you don't want to be over 13'6. But even with a S-280, which is 87" on the 60" deck of the truck, you're still under 12 feet. You can go just anywhere in 12 feet, including Zion if you get the tunnel permit. For the handful of little bridges, you can just drive around on other roads. Zion is the only area I know if that is captive - ie you have to make the clearance (13 ft) to get there at all, with no alternative. Would be interested in hearing about other places though.

I know not being able to roll through a mcdonalds window sucks sometimes...

 

[coachgeo]

In my experience the most North American issues you run into when Over-landing is tree limbs. More so on the Eastern half of US than the Western half? Boy can they cause damage too. One day of trail riding can leave you with a whole weekend of repair$. Besides; one way to get the hackles raised by environmental groups who just LOVE to get trails shut down is to do any form of cutting on a tree. While maybe they should not get to point of Hackle hairs raised as high as they do....... gotta sorta agree; it is wise to plan alternate route if it looks like limbs will need cutting. Sometimes ya gotta..... but do your darndest to avoid it and be displeased about it when you have too..... IMHO. Tis mostly why am hoping to stick as close to 10' max myself. My old Mog with Roof Rack was closer to 11' than I liked, but much more narrow and shorter.

 

[aleigh]

Out here LEO and lands people are generally appreciative IF you cut on improved gravel roads (the forest roads). You are a hero if you cut on hardball. I've had rangers stop, thank me and ask if I would cut more. But obviously these are cases where you are cutting an established road, and more often than not, deadfall. If someone decided an ATV trail should fit a LMTV and got out a saw that is a different deal.

Most of our in-use FS roads clear a 5 ton. I think because that's probably about the size of logging / etc truck they get through towing backhoes and dozers and other forestry equipment. i have little to no problem with the LMTV, even on tight switchbacks. Where I run into problems besides storms and deadfall are the dis-used (but previously improved) roads, which after a fashion, only fit jeeps because that is all guys take through there.

It never ceases to amaze me how far in people will drag huge travel trailers and toy haulers out here...

 

[coachgeo]

Out here LEO and lands people are generally appreciative IF you cut on improved gravel roads (the forest roads). You are a hero if you cut on hardball. I've had rangers stop, thank me and ask if I would cut more. But obviously these are cases where you are cutting an established road, and more often than not, deadfall. If someone decided an ATV trail should fit a LMTV and got out a saw that is a different deal.

Most of our in-use FS roads clear a 5 ton. I think because that's probably about the size of logging / etc truck they get through towing backhoes and dozers and other forestry equipment. i have little to no problem with the LMTV, even on tight switchbacks. Where I run into problems besides storms and deadfall are the dis-used (but previously improved) roads, which after a fashion, only fit jeeps because that is all guys take through there.

It never ceases to amaze me how far in people will drag huge travel trailers and toy haulers out here...

yup yup... agree on all that. Never saw an LEO but twice myself. Helped him find a drunk idiot before he killed himself, and other time when an ATV'r road off a drop and got neck injuries that required Life Flight. Never heard of anyone saying thanks either cept for planned organize trail clean ups. REAL glad to hear someone has said thanks for good trail stewardship!! When wheeled in CA all I ever heard was in effect Don't cut, Don't touch comments from organizations like the Blue Ribbon Coalition/Share Trails etc. unless part of an organized; supervised by Forrest Service trail clean ups. Maybe things are not as bad as they use to be? It's been awhile for me. Was back in the 1990-2000 when last wheeling over that way.

 

[coachgeo]

.... Zion is the only area I know if that is captive - ie you have to make the clearance (13 ft) to get there at all, with no alternative. Would be interested in hearing about other

places though..

Here's interesting one. National Park Service notes on Going to the Sun road in Montana limiting to 10ft high, 8' wide, 21' long. https://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/gtsrinfo.htm hmmm.... Guess if one can keep their build to making it thru this one then should be golden most anywhere besides ATV designation or smaller?

 

[aleigh]

yup yup... agree on all that. Never saw an LEO but twice myself. Helped him find a drunk idiot before he killed himself, and other time when an ATV'r road off a drop and got neck injuries that required Life Flight. Never heard of any saying thanks either cept for planned organize trail clean ups. REAL glad to hear someone has said thanks for good trail stewardship. When wheeled in CA all I ever heard was in effect Don't cut, Don't touch comments from organizations like the Blue Ribbon Coalition/Share Trails etc. unless part of an organized; supervised by Forrest Service trail clean ups. Maybe things are not as bad as they use to be? It's been awhile for me. Was back in the 90-2000 when over that way.

Sigh all that happens when people don't cut dead-fall is they just go around it and screw the trail up even more. Anyways point being, in 12' out here, you fit on in-use roads and some seldom used roads that are no longer maintained. The tracks, not at all. Our tracks fit Jeeps in the mountains. I have less trouble in Central/Eastern Washington, where the ground is open.

 

[aleigh]

Here's interesting one. National Park Service notes on Going to the Sun road in Montana limiting to 10ft high, 8' wide, 21' long. https://www.nps.gov/glac/planyourvisit/gtsrinfo.htm hmmm.... Guess if one can keep their build to making it thru this one then should be golden most anywhere besides ATV designation or smaller?

How about a motorcycle on the back...

 

[coachgeo]

How about a motorcycle on the back...

tis in my plans at least. A diesel one at that.

 

[LostInTheWorld]

We really wanted our overland truck to be around 10 ft, but we've been having trouble keeping the height down to 11 ft on our design.

We recently measured the following heights from the ground to the top of the upper frame rails on our LMTV:

53.75 inches in the back with bed/seats/sides/bows/canvas on the frame
55.875 inches in the back and 53.0 inches in the front with the bed removed

If we leave the upper frame rails on, assume a 2 inch thick floor, a 2 inch thick ceiling/roof, and give myself an inch or two of head clearance, we end up with an overall height of 11 feet 2 inches tall. If we add a solar panel, add a roof vent on the top, or kinematically mount the box, the height gets even worse.

Without removing the top frame rails or giving myself zero head clearance, it's going to be pretty hard to get our height below 11 feet....

 

[csoledade]

We really wanted our overland truck to be around 10 ft, but we've been having trouble keeping the height down to 11 ft on our design.

We recently measured the following heights from the ground to the top of the upper frame rails on our LMTV:

53.75 inches in the back with bed/seats/sides/bows/canvas on the frame
55.875 inches in the back and 53.0 inches in the front with the bed removed

If we leave the upper frame rails on, assume a 2 inch thick floor, a 2 inch thick ceiling/roof, and give myself an inch or two of head clearance, we end up with an overall height of 11 feet 2 inches tall. If we add a solar panel, add a roof vent on the top, or kinematically mount the box, the height gets even worse.

Without removing the top frame rails or giving myself zero head clearance, it's going to be pretty hard to get our height below 11 feet....

View attachment 631584

Hello. If you remove the upper frame rails on your vehicle, does the transmission get in the way of mounting the box?

At least on a M1078A1 with a C7 drivetrain, the transmission seems to be mounted so high that it would interfere with the box if the upper frame rails are removed.

Also are you considering some form of torsion mount to keep the box from twisting when the frame rails flex? This seems to be critical in keeping the boxes from falling apart over time due to twisting forces.

 

[coachgeo]

Options to remain lower in overall height (Admittingly posting these here for everyone and as a place to store ideas for myself)


1. Lifting Top-

. Hardside raising top (Hi lo / Alaskan camper like)



. typical raising top with cloth that fills gap (VW Westfaula etc).



. Consider only area you stand to be lifted. (center isle) Search Compact Jr


2. No Stand Box



Build it knowing you won't stand up. Moving about is all done via rolling chair or stool like 404 Unimog Radiobox* . Leave open spot to pass each other's chair. Realistically one stands very little in a camper anyway except for cooking. For ideas how to cook without standing search kitchen designs for wheelchair users.



Something else to consider: Minimizing Claustrophobia (esp. for no stand Camp Boxes) .

lol butt??
The claustrophobia-ness of any type camper box can be minimized several ways. Even squat toilet in floor of aisle with curtain/partition. Either Sitting or Squat could be compostable but consider separate Urine Collection. Burn off Gray/Black-w/out solids water in engine Exhaust



incorporating a tilt/pull out patio/deck design. Provides stand able non-claustrophobic "living space" you might say via outdoor with/without screened room above the ground (to keeps the Lions away right )



Outdoor kitchen on deck including KISS kitchen not pictured via mount kitchen items sideways in countertop so usable from outside via opened hatch/window or inside with it closed. (sink, cooktop, Fridge sideways at end or cooler type etc) Won't need fancy slide out for this idea that way.


...................................................
Also Drawers, Rotate outs, Tilts out's etc............................................(pivots out the opening) .


*Radiobox had wheel wells to drop the box as low as possible on the chassis.

 

[coachgeo]

Hello. If you remove the upper frame rails on your vehicle, does the transmission get in the way of mounting the box?

Wheel Wells and Tranny tunnel cavities in the floor solves that.

...Also are you considering some form of torsion mount to keep the box from twisting when the frame rails flex? This seems to be critical in keeping the boxes from falling apart over time due to twisting forces.

Addresed in other threads. So not to duplicate/hijack this thread do Search to help find. When got time I'll edit in a link to discussion(s) (update: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...e-flex-question-compared-to-Unimog-frame-flex )

 

[csoledade]

Addresed in other threads. So not to duplicate/hijack this thread do Search to help find. When got time I'll edit in a link to discussion(s) (update: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...e-flex-question-compared-to-Unimog-frame-flex )

I was not asking for myself. There are pages on torsion subframe design at expedition portal. I was suggesting it to LostinTheWorld in case he had not considered it. It is connected to the thread in that a torsion subframe can add to the max height.