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My MEP003a story and Hertz issue

RGJ58

RGJ58

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Hello all,

SO....

Here is my MEP003a story, Before i dive off into it i would like to say that i have done much searching and this site has helped me fix all of my issues up till this point so thank you steel soldiers!

I purchased a MEP003a off of ebay for a what i thought was a good deal of 1550 shipped to my door several weeks ago. I take the time to order new fuel filters and oil filters change the oil and pour diesel into the tank get some group 59 batteries. I then see diesel pouring out of the bottom of fuel tank onto the ground so i go ahead and pull the tank off. I see a hole about the size of dime clean through the tank with rust on the inside of the tank. I think OK no big deal i grind it down cut out a piece of steel and weld it up tank is as good as new and holding diesel. I try to start the machine and it fires right up to my surprise however when i let go of the start knob it dies.. I am sure everyone can see where this is going and yes after some searching on (SS) i jumped both my over temp and oil safety switch but still got nothing. I then realize that the hold coil in my fuel cut off solenoid must be toast so i take the whole thing off and the generator will now run great i just have to turn it off with a pry bar. I then search for a replacement solenoid and to my complete surprise they run around 400$ and that is something i just couldn't justify on a sorry law enforcement salary! After a lot of searching i seem to have discovered a solution in the form of a 24v tractor solenoid on ebay for under a 100 dollars. I have not installed it yet so i cant say for sure that it will work however it is the same size and travel of the original i will just have to alter the way it mounts because the screw holes are a tad different.

So after all this the issues i am still having is that for one my hertz gauge doesn't work and i cannot seem to find a replacement that doesn't cost a bunch of $$$. I am open to after market gauges as long as they are weather resistant i am just hoping to find one that will fit in the original location so if anyone has any ideas please share?? The second issue is i took my multi-meter set it to hertz and shoved the leads into the convenience outlet on the front to try and go ahead and set my throttle. The problem is that it seems that the rpm of the engine to make 60hz seems way to low as the throttle is only slightly off of idle and i know these units never should be idled. My question here is what am i doing wrong why will it only make 60hz very low in rpm or is this correct??? I plugged in a vacuum and a light with the throttle maxxed and they seemed to run fine but my meter shows 80hz with the throttle that high??

Sorry for the long story thanks for any help of advice!
 
C

Chainbreaker

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I would replace the analog gauge with one of Jimc's drop in digital meters (he's a member here) who sells them on eBay. Costs much less than a transducer/analog gauge. I just installed his 3 gauge set and am quite pleased. The nice thing about using his digital Hz gauge is that you don't need to use the original Transducer. It's usually the transducer that fails on these units. So that failure point is removed with the digital Hz gauge. Nice thing is that it is EASY to install, only takes about 15 minutes.

As for your low rpm readings for 60 Hz I would try to get my hands on a Kill-A-Watt meter to verify your reading. Near idle should not produce 60 Hz, has to be 1800 RPM. I use the P4460 Kill-A-Watt model, less than $30 on Amazon. Seems very reliable and quite handy to have around to measure other parameters throughout the house.
 
Triple Jim

Triple Jim

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You won't hurt an 003A by running the engine slowly. Maybe other generators, but not the 002A or 003A. Getting Jim C.'s kit is a good idea, as is the Kill-A-Watt meter. I use mine like Chainbraker does. You can check your frequency meter if you have an old 120v analog clock. At 60 Hz, it will match your quartz wristwatch. At 59, for example, it'll read a second slower every minute, and be five seconds off your watch in 5 minutes.
 
RGJ58

RGJ58

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(ChainBreaker) That sounds great i briefly looked on eBay to see if i could find that seller to purchase one of the gauges but could not find them. Would you happen to have Jim C's seller name or a link to his products? Also i have seen those kill-A-watt meters in videos of MEP003a online and they seem to work well i am going to pick up one as well so i can double check my Hz rating. I might be completely off on the Rpms i thought that 1800 rpm was about where the set was when the throttle was maxed but i don't think that is the case after going outside again last night to test it.

(Triple Jim) Thats a very good idea i never thought about that, Worth a try!
 
C

Chainbreaker

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I saw some of Jim's gauges listed on eBay about a month ago. He may have temporarily sold out.

His member name here on SS is "Jimc". PM him and ask him if he has any of the Hz gauges in stock.
 
Guyfang

Guyfang

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As far as I know, and I worked on the 002 and 003 gen sets for almost 30 years, idling the engine will destroy the Volt Reg card. I once had to replace 5 in one unit, when a young man decided to idle his generators to "cool them off". Not good. If there had been fewer witnesses, I might have strangled him. Now there may have been an upgrade, or improvement at some point in time, but I don't know of one. I spoke to a TACOM rep. about this problem in 2010. And that was TACOM's warning to all users. Do not run the sets at idle. Running them at a slightly lower RPM wont hurt the set. But not idle.
 
Triple Jim

Triple Jim

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No, running under speed with an 003A or 002A will not hurt the regulator. I installed a regulator output current meter in the front panel of my 003A and watched the current at different engine speeds, with and without loads. The regulator works hardest at engine speeds higher than 1800 rpm, and least at speeds lower than 1800. To verify this I have run my 003A for 20 minutes or so at the lowest speed the adjustment would let me run at, and the regulator stayed cool to the touch.

Many generators have a regulator that supplies field current. This type of generator does indeed work the regulator hardest when the engine is below operating speed, because the output voltage drops, and the regulator tries to bring it up by supplying more current. It seems that because some generators shouldn't be run below operating speed, well-meaning folks spread the word that the 002A and 003A are like this, and will suffer damage to their regulators if the engine is run below 1800 rpm.

But the 002A and 003A use an unusual system, with field current supplied by windings X1, X2, and X3 of CVT1 and the diode bridge A4, not by the regulator. CVT1 is a very special type of transformer that is a magnetic amplifier. It has control windings at terminals C1 and C2. When current is passed through these control windings, X1, X2, and X3's output is reduced, and so the field current is reduced. The regulator is designed so that when the output voltage of the generator is too high, it passes a small current, usually around 150 or 200 mA, through the control windings in CVT1, and this brings down the generator output voltage. If the voltage is low, as in when the engine is running below 1,800 rpm, the regulator raises the output voltage by reducing its output to CVT1's control windings.

This doesn't mean there is any good reason to run the generator below 1,800 rpm, and in fact the 002A manual specifically says not to do this. I doubt if you'll cool off an air cooled engine by running it slower than its designed speed, since its own cooling fan slows down when you do this. So while I'm suggesting you keep your 002A and 003A engine set to 1,800 rpm, you will not hurt the regulator by running it slower than that.

Edit: Guyfang, I'm not saying the guy didn't blow five regulators, but I don't think they blew because he ran the engines slowly. Maybe with his screwing around with speed, he ran them all too fast at some point, or did something else to cause their failure.
 
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Guyfang

Guyfang

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Jim, its a long way to germany, and I do not have any generators right now. I repaired generators for 20 years in the army. Retired in 1993 and stayed here. Worked for ITT as a contractor here in power generation from 2004 to 2011. I just like trying to figure out whats the problem. I would love to be on your side of the big water and be able to be doing this stuff.
 
RGJ58

RGJ58

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Hello all I am sorry it has taken me so long to update the thread things have been crazy out here and I haven't had much time. Thank you all for all the helpful replies I appreciate them! I have not gotten a chance to mount the after market fuel solenoid to the unit yet but will let everyone know how that goes so maybe you too can save several hundred dollars if yours breaks. However I do have a question regarding the gauges I am still looking for a frequency gauge that will fit the factory round hole however it doesn't have to look the same as the others I just want one to work that has a built in transducer. I PMed JIMC to inquire about his highly recommend gauges but was advised he has sold out for now. Does anyone have any odeas? I have done a lot of searching and even purchased a mep017a gauge it was however to small.
Thanks again for all the help!
 
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R

robertsears1

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What if you made an adapter out of aluminum for the smaller gauge? You could use the original mounting holes to mount the adapter on the backside of the panel.

Robert
 
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