Legality of Passengers In Cargo Bed of MV's in MI?

[74M35A2]

I am almost certain this is the wrong section, and apology for that. There is a very large cruise function this week and weekend here in MI called Woodward Dream Cruise. I'm trying to decipher the legality of having passengers in the cargo bed area of my 925 and WildChild467's M35A2 for it. From what I see in the ordinance, I can't tell if "Military Vehicle" means a vehicle type, or if it means vehicle (currently) owned and used by the military. We have some legal beagles who are very good at deciphering, and I really appreciate their input. Thanks in advance. Keyboard still messed up. Looks like I am 3 years old. Apology again if covered before.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(12...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-257-682b

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949​

257.682b Permitting person under 18 to ride in open bed of pickup truckprohibited; exceptions; civil infraction.
Sec. 682b.
(1) Except as provided in this section, an operator shallnot permit a person less than 18 years of age to ride in the open bed of apickup truck on a highway, road, or street in a city, village, or township at aspeed greater than 15 miles per hour.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to the operator of anyof the following:
(a) A motor vehicle operated as part of a parade pursuantto a permit issued by the governmental unit with jurisdiction over the highwayor street.
(b) A military motor vehicle.
(c) An authorized emergency vehicle.
(d) A motor vehicle controlled or operated by an employeror an employee of a farm operation, construction business, or similarenterprise during the course of work activities.
(e) A motor vehicle used to transport a search and rescueteam to and from the site of an emergency.
(3) A person who violates this section is responsible fora civil infraction.

History: Add. 2000, Act 434, Eff. Mar. 28, 2001
Compiler's Notes: Former MCL 257.682b, which pertained to personsauthorized to be transported on school bus and to first aid kits, fireextinguishers, and traffic flares, was repealed by Act 188 of 1990, Eff. Aug.15, 1990.

 

[simp5782]

Be easiest to call the Head LEO in that area that it is going to take place and see what their take on it is. If they feel comfortable that you are going to be safe and responsible then they probably will not care. Just easier to ask the locality rather than go off what the state legislature says since it can be interpreted different ways.

 

[porkysplace]

Generally it means owned by the military , as once they are sold they are considered former military vehicles or for the michigan plate laws historic military vehicles . So not being a lawyer I would say , no it doesn't include historic military vehicles.

 

[porkysplace]

Be easiest to call the Head LEO in that area that it is going to take place and see what their take on it is. If they feel comfortable that you are going to be safe and responsible then they probably will not care. Just easier to ask the locality rather than go off what the state legislature says since it can be interpreted different ways.

The Woodward cruise go through mulitiple jurisdictions and from what I understand from some car guys in my area that have gone down there a lot of the LEO's down there have no clue on any of the historical vehicle laws in michigan let alone on riding in the back of a truck .

 

[99nouns]

No one probably notice until you actually kill someone with it, (god forbid) but if you speak to LEOs make sure to record names so you can blame them later... I mean refer them incase someone asks...

 

[kfrosty]

I'm not a lawyer and I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn express lately so this is just an opinion.

As is pointed out, nobody in government has any accountability. If you ask and somebody wants to give you a ticket, they'll say it wasn't their responsibility to know but yours. Also, you can be 100% right and still have get hassled. I'm not down on police but more so government and politicians and all the BS bureaucracy. Hardly anybody knows the laws anymore.

Next this specifically states in the back of a pickup and persons under the age of 18. The vehicles you state are not pickups trucks. They are cargo trucks. So I'd be looking for a statute on that and it will probably be predicated by the type of tag you have. (If you have a commercial tag, I'd say no. Antique, regular tag etc, then I wouldn't worry about the police.) Also, if you aren't allowing anybody under 18, it sounds like a moot discussion.

I'd be more worried about somebody falling out and getting hurt than a police civil citation. If it's a slow cruise, I doubt anybody will say anything, if you're traveling highway speeds I wouldn't do it if it were legal and take the risk. A civil infraction is probably only a hundred or so and you can pay. (Just collect from everybody riding. Or just say you're Uber.)

A legal lawsuit from somebody hurt, disabled or worse, not so much.

If you want to do it, feel it's safe, have the statutes in hand. It should be easy to defend it's not a pickup truck.

And the way it's worded, it doesn't say anything about the military owning the vehicle or specifically hauling military personnel.

It just states a Military Vehicle and that's what you have.

If somebody can argue the meaning of the word IS, then this certainly could be debated. But going back to previous statements, government officials anymore don't seem to have to know the law to make a judgement anymore.

Heck, make the trip about going to farm some strawberries or pumpkins or such and you have helpers in the back. (Section d)

Most likely if somebody did pull you over, if you have the statute pick a stance, explain it, if they have a problem they'll probably just ask you to get the people out of the back.

Personally, I'd have everyone sign waivers as again, I'd be more concerned about somebody getting hurt and a lawsuit than I would be a ticket.

If you're looking for a pure legal standpoint, the answer is how much money do you want to spend if you have a problem. The more money, the legal things tend to be.

 

[infidel got me]

From what I've heard the cruise speed is at or slightly above idle. Not much of a difference than riding on a parade float.

 

[74M35A2]

Thanks all. I agree with everything posted, completely, from top to bottom. I was looking forward to Porky's response since he is from MI and was hoping BobH would chime in too but that's ok. It is interesting to see even the out of stater's still had very reasonable opinions that fit well, considering the laws are likely different in their state. Although there is no definitive answer here, and nearly impossible to do so, it is reassuring that my own interpretation of it was at least the same as other sane minds. I thought I remember that MI state law used to say if you have a seat mounted in the rear with a seat belt, it is ok. So then I was wondering about troop seats, but sans belt. I was surprised to see the latest code says nothing about that, or I didn't pull that part up if still present. Thanks again.

Correct, it does draw over 1 million people, and is labeled as the largest single day car event in the world. The actual day of the event, yes it is a brake pedal drive only. Maybe about a foot per minute.

As I just read this again, it seems to really only apply to persons under 18. Not sure about the over 18 part.

 

[porkysplace]

Thanks all. I agree with everything posted, completely, from top to bottom. I was looking forward to Porky's response since he is from MI and was hoping BobH would chime in too but that's ok. It is interesting to see even the out of stater's still had very reasonable opinions that fit well, considering the laws are likely different in their state. Although there is no definitive answer here, and nearly impossible to do so, it is reassuring that my own interpretation of it was at least the same as other sane minds. I thought I remember that MI state law used to say if you have a seat mounted in the rear with a seat belt, it is ok. So then I was wondering about troop seats, but sans belt. I was surprised to see the latest code says nothing about that, or I didn't pull that part up if still present. Thanks again. Correct, it does draw over 1 million people, and is labeled as the largest single day car event in the world. The actual day of the event, yes it is a brake pedal drive only. Maybe about a foot per minute.

I guys from town here I know that went down a couple years ago go tickets for improper plates , their cars were registered with plates from the year of manufacture ( a option similar to no plate on HMV's , even know the plates were registered to the car , 1 was a 1968 with a 1968 plate the other a 1970 with a 1970 plate. The judge threw the tickets out by it was a day off work for each of them and 100+ miles trip to go to court because the LEO didn't know the law or care about it.

I think the bigger concern would be your insurance and coverage .

 

[kfrosty]

Thanks all. I agree with everything posted, completely, from top to bottom. I was looking forward to Porky's response since he is from MI and was hoping BobH would chime in too but that's ok. It is interesting to see even the out of stater's still had very reasonable opinions that fit well, considering the laws are likely different in their state. Although there is no definitive answer here, and nearly impossible to do so, it is reassuring that my own interpretation of it was at least the same as other sane minds. I thought I remember that MI state law used to say if you have a seat mounted in the rear with a seat belt, it is ok. So then I was wondering about troop seats, but sans belt. I was surprised to see the latest code says nothing about that, or I didn't pull that part up if still present. Thanks again.

Correct, it does draw over 1 million people, and is labeled as the largest single day car event in the world. The actual day of the event, yes it is a brake pedal drive only. Maybe about a foot per minute.

As I just read this again, it seems to really only apply to persons under 18. Not sure about the over 18 part.

If anybody messes with you based on that, then they are just out trying to collect/steal money. Take the statute, it's reasonable to prove you feel you're in the right. According to the FBI, apparently if you didn't know, then there is no crime to charge you for???? (Or maybe that only works for government officials.

 

[WILLYSOVERLAND]

Here in pa the law is you are allowed to ride in the back of a pu but can not go over 30 miles per hour.
My nieces kid is a cop and we were just talking about it the other day. As many as can fit too.

 

[Tinstar]

I usually ask a state DOT trooper as they are much more versed on laws like that, than local or county.
Any question they can't answer they will find out for you. They have been great here.

Good Luck.

 

[99nouns]

This subject is stressing me out, unsubscribed

 

[airbornebandsman]

When it says Military Vehicle it means owned by government MVs. I almost guarantee that is the intent (especially if you look at the rest of the list). You can argue on semantics of Military Vehicle vs. Former Military Vehicle but I believe it is a moot point. The thing aboit barracks lawyers are is that you getting hemmed up for doing something wrong they advised you on, you are still the one that takes the hit. Ask the state PD and/or local Leos, I think that is your best bet.

 

[74M35A2]

Well, the cruise happened. I didn't take anybody in the bed, WildChild467 took several in the bed of his M35a2, as did a few other MV's there, and there was no issue. The bed riders were even standing. I called my local city police to ask about it the day before, and they said it is not allowed in their city, and that it will differ city-by-city. This didn't make sense to me, as I thought vehicle codes were a statewide legality? Maybe it is and she was confused. This is what I was scared of, too inconclusive, which would have left it to the discretion of any officer which saw it. Good for those who were able to to it without issue, but I didn't want to have to tell my passengers to get out and walk, 30 miles away from home. I was unable to easily find MI ordinance about this for riders over 18 years old. I should start there and proceed for next time. Thanks, sorry this thread has an inconclusive ending.