LDT Head Gasket swap. How many shop hours?

[Tototex]

How many hours should a shop charge me to swap a head gasket?

Now into the story. I bought this LDT engine and the previous owner told me he had just put in a new head gasket. Got the new engine in and sure enough, it still had a blown head gasket on the rear head. Had a friend who swapped the gasket, machine shop said the head didn't need to be shaved but did a pass anyway. Now here I am 100 miles later with another blown head gasket...

Was looking at doing it myself but those head and exhaust bolts look like a head ache. I am on the fence about just sending it to a shop but am wondering what they are going to charge me.

So any tips on doing this myself or dealing with a shop are much appreciated!

 

[gimpyrobb]

Figure at least 3 days. One to pull the head, one to clean everything up, one to put back together.

 

[clinto]

I think Gimpy's right. I've done a bunch of these and even after having done a bunch, it still takes a while. Like, I'm down to the point that I know which tools to grab out of the box level familiarity.

Some of it is that with the engine torn down that far, there's a bunch of other stuff you ought to do. Coolant hoses, injector return lines (if they're old), flushing cooling system, pyrometer tapping, oil pressure sending unit replacement (if necessary), freeze plugs in the heads, etc., etc.

I know there's people on SS who claim they can or have done it in like 10-12 hours, but they must be crazy fast, or they're doing it down and dirty and literally pulling the head off, hitting it and the deck with some brake cleaner and throwing the new gaskets on and putting it all back together.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?11295-All-this-for-a-freeze-plug-!

 

[rustystud]

I think Gimpy's right. I've done a bunch of these and even after having done a bunch, it still takes a while. Like, I'm down to the point that I know which tools to grab out of the box level familiarity.

Some of it is that with the engine torn down that far, there's a bunch of other stuff you ought to do. Coolant hoses, injector return lines (if they're old), flushing cooling system, pyrometer tapping, oil pressure sending unit replacement (if necessary), freeze plugs in the heads, etc., etc.

I know there's people on SS who claim they can or have done it in like 10-12 hours, but they must be crazy fast, or they're doing it down and dirty and literally pulling the head off, hitting it and the deck with some brake cleaner and throwing the new gaskets on and putting it all back together.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?11295-All-this-for-a-freeze-plug-!

I agree. It usually takes 3 or more days depending how the heads are (do they need work) to do a head gasket. That's in our shop with nice lifting equipment and hoists and such !

 

[jacklegjim]

I have replaced head gaskets on two different ldt 465 engines this year and had the heads reworked on one of them.
There is almost always some kind of issue when dealing with the exhaust
and turbo. At least a few broke bolts so be prepared for that. I think 3 days is minimum. If you are going to keep the truck and want it to be reliable I would make sure the heads are flat on the gasket surface .005 is the most that can be removed to true them.Check the valve stem to guide clearance and lap the valves to get a good seal. I would also replace all the coolant hoses. There are some vendors selling a hose kit with the wrong size intake manifold hoses so watch for that they will leak if you use those. For me it was about a week spending two or three hours after work and a weekend. Clean every thing good including studs and nuts also fix any other leaks while it is apart. One more thing drain the oil first if you don't want to change it, coolant will run in the oil pan when the heads are removed. Sometimes when removing the push rods
the lifters will stick to the rods and come out of there bore so watch for that. This can be done with basic hand tools and the engine is easy to work on. You will need to make or buy the special head bolt wrench, have a torque wrench and a strong back. I would recommend doing it, you will be a Lot more familiar with the truck when you are finished.

 

[rustystud]

I have replaced head gaskets on two different ldt 465 engines this year and had the heads reworked on one of them.
There is almost always some kind of issue when dealing with the exhaust
and turbo. At least a few broke bolts so be prepared for that. I think 3 days is minimum. If you are going to keep the truck and want it to be reliable I would make sure the heads are flat on the gasket surface .005 is the most that can be removed to true them.Check the valve stem to guide clearance and lap the valves to get a good seal. I would also replace all the coolant hoses. There are some vendors selling a hose kit with the wrong size intake manifold hoses so watch for that they will leak if you use those. For me it was about a week spending two or three hours after work and a weekend. Clean every thing good including studs and nuts also fix any other leaks while it is apart. One more thing drain the oil first if you don't want to change it, coolant will run in the oil pan when the heads are removed. Sometimes when removing the push rods
the lifters will stick to the rods and come out of there bore so watch for that. This can be done with basic hand tools and the engine is easy to work on. You will need to make or buy the special head bolt wrench, have a torque wrench and a strong back. I would recommend doing it, you will be a Lot more familiar with the truck when you are finished.

For us to do this job correctly really would take a week. I would remove all injectors and completely teardown the heads. Get them checked for warpage and do a valve job. I don't want to have to go back in a year to do a valve job. Get it all done now. It's the same thing when removing the transmission, you always replace the rear seal.

 

[Tototex]

Thanks for the information guys.

My oil is already a milky white so it has to be changed. Do I need to flush the system somehow or just change the oil as usual?

Im gonna do the change myself. I don't want to pay the shop for 3 days of work...

I just hope I don't make things worse. The heads were just changed a few months ago so the bolts should be pretty easy to remove.

 

[rustystud]

Thanks for the information guys.

My oil is already a milky white so it has to be changed. Do I need to flush the system somehow or just change the oil as usual?

Im gonna do the change myself. I don't want to pay the shop for 3 days of work...

I just hope I don't make things worse. The heads were just changed a few months ago so the bolts should be pretty easy to remove.

The heads where just changed out recently ? Take it back to them and have them do it right ! They messed up something for the gaskets to go bad this fast. More then likely the heads need shaving.

 

[scboolitcaster]

I'd say the big question is why does the gasket keep blowing?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[jacklegjim]

If you are going to have the heads machined make sure they understand the maxium
amount that can be removed. Some shops will get the head setup close and take .005 or .010
cuts until it is cleaned up. Not a problem on most gas motors it won't work on these.They should be
machined on a grinder so they can take .0005 at a time until they are flat and pits removed from the fire ring area.
Also if they need valves or guides don't let the shop order them get them from a surplus vendor they will be a fraction
of the cost. I got all six exhaust valves for less than the shop could get one for. The new style head gaskets are expensive
but are less prone to have issues its worth the money. You should be able to get a complete gasket set with new style
head gaskets for $200 or less.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I think I have new style head gaskets if your looking.

 

[Floridianson]

And if the Head was shaved it should be stamped as per TM. Also you should look for the stamp to see if it was ever shaved before.

 

[Seth_O]

I'd say the big question is why does the gasket keep blowing?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

This.

Assuming the head job was just done and a new gasket was installed, it should not have blown this quickly. Either the install was butchered or you have some other problem.

I did the HG on my deuce on the side of the road parked out front of my house. Honestly I didn't think it was that complicated or challenging. Yeah, there are lots of parts to take off and their big, but its not complex compared to my buddies 300z that we did in my garage or even my '93 Landcruiser. Its a matter of how much 'while you're in there' you want to do. Plan on a several days and just spend the time wrenching and enjoying your truck.

Use the 'new' style gasket and work on the block and engine bay while the head is at the shop. I actually enjoy doing HG's as there is a tremendous sense of satisfaction from completing it.

 

[Tototex]

I think I have new style head gaskets if your looking.

I should have probably checked here first but I picked up a complete set on Ebay for 180 with free shipping.

 

[Tototex]

Well the rear head was just de-done. He did use a new style gasket and get the head shaved. The front head was not touched so I am hoping that is the blown one this time. I have got the valve cover of and push rods out.

How do the rods(cylinders?) with the springs come off? I dont see any bolts and they dont seem to want to pull out. Any help here?

The intake manifold and exhaust seem like I can just remove the bolts connecting it to the heads and pull it to the side. Dont actually need to take it all the way out.

The fuel lines look a little tricky though. Not sure how to remove those yet, saving them for last. Any tips here?

 

[rustystud]

Well the rear head was just de-done. He did use a new style gasket and get the head shaved. The front head was not touched so I am hoping that is the blown one this time. I have got the valve cover of and push rods out.

How do the rods(cylinders?) with the springs come off? I dont see any bolts and they dont seem to want to pull out. Any help here?

The intake manifold and exhaust seem like I can just remove the bolts connecting it to the heads and pull it to the side. Dont actually need to take it all the way out.

The fuel lines look a little tricky though. Not sure how to remove those yet, saving them for last. Any tips here?

The rods with springs, are you talking about the valves ? If you are then they come out with a special "valve spring compressor" tool. I would let the shop deal with them if you don't have the tools.

 

[Tototex]

The rods with springs, are you talking about the valves ? If you are then they come out with a special "valve spring compressor" tool. I would let the shop deal with them if you don't have the tools.

I am literally some guy who bought a socket set at Home Depot and have never done anything really mechanical. So I do not have any special tools.

I see some valve spring compressor tools on Amazon for $50 or so. I am guessing the $14 8 inch compressor tool wont do?

I'll do a little more research on this tomorrow.

 

[rustystud]

I am literally some guy who bought a socket set at Home Depot and have never done anything really mechanical. So I do not have any special tools.

I see some valve spring compressor tools on Amazon for $50 or so. I am guessing the $14 8 inch compressor tool wont do?

I'll do a little more research on this tomorrow.

If you have never taken an engine apart then I would get help from an experienced person to help you. I would not take the valves apart ! They are under a lot of pressure and can cause a lot of damage if done improperly !

 

[gimpyrobb]

Just take the head off and take it to a machine shop. Tell them you want it shaved for flatness, do a valve job, and put freeze plugs in it. While they do that, you can clean up everything else.

I'd recommend pulling the manifolds off and setting them out of the way, there is a lot of weight there to just "lay it aside".

 

[fsearls92]

With the manifolds off, it wouldn't hurt to take the exhaust manifold to the machine shop too and have it "decked" (which is what the machine shop called it when I had them do it) to ensure a completely flat mounting surface when it comes time for reinstall.