ldy

[plym49]

How do those of you that daily drive a Deuce do it?

Here's what I mean. The plaque on the dashboard say to idle the engine five minutes after starting before driving, and to let it idle for 5 minutes before shutdown. Ostensibly, this is to let the turbo bearings nicely warm up and cool down.

That is 10 minutes of idling added onto each start-stop. Even a quick stop for a cup of coffee; 10 minutes added on.

I can't imagine that everyone religiously follows these two five-minute rules, and yet no one wants to hurt their motors. (I have always followed the scrupulously followed these rules even though at times they are a bother.)

What is the straight scoop and how do you all handle it?

 

[cattlerepairman]

I let the engine run at increased idle (just under 1000rpm) until the air buzzer stops. Thats my time for a walkaround. Then I drive off, keeping rpm reasonable until temp comes up. If I stop directly after a highway run, I do let it idle before shutdown. In my usual parking spot, there is a length of backing up at near idle, so that counts towards cooldown already.

 

[gimpyrobb]

If you have a pyro installed, you can monitor your temps and not worry about time restraints.

 

[71DeuceAK]

I'm definitely curious about this too, as someone who may be daily driving a Deuce by this spring myself.

 

[orren]

I thought the time restraints where necessary to allow the turbo to spool down or up while oil pressure
was still not sufficient to properly lub turbo?? This is a good reason to covert to spin on oil filters
for faster start up oil pressure.

Also, I use Lucas oil additive which I think holds oil film better thus minimizing turbo lub
concerns, IMO.

If you have a pyro installed, you can monitor your temps and not worry about time restraints.

 

[ColonelSanders]

If you have a pyro installed, you can monitor your temps and not worry about time restraints.

Is that accurate enough? If you are measuring exhaust gas temps, is there sufficient correlation between the gas temp and the bearing/oil temp that just looking at EGTs is safe?

Possible/feasible to get a sensor on the bearings or perhaps the return oil line to see more exactly what the cooldown time of a turbo is?

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Excellent Question ! Thanks for posting it up !

I don't drive our Deuce daily but somewhat often - especially during the Toys For Tots winter fund raising season.

START-UP:
We keep The ARK in our residential back yard, so here's what I do....
Climb into the cab and unchain the steering wheel.
Run through pre-start check.
Start-up and monitor gauges.
Set THROTTLE to high idle RPM.
Walk around around inspection (already aware of any drips or leaks since we're in our backyard and they would be obvious.)
Unlock and open chainlink fence gate (one 5' panel, one 21' panel with a wheel to support the latch end (must swing 160 to 180 degrees to be able to turn truck into 25' wide alley)).
Check air pressure (even if buzzer has silenced) and pump brake pedal to assure stopping potential, engage transfer case, engage transmission and then release parking brake.
Using only the clutch with engine still at high idle roll out making a HARD right turn into the alley and clearing the big gate panel.
Set the parking brake and disengage the two gear boxes.
Jump out (more of a slow climb at my age) and go shut and lock the gate.
Return to the truck cab and release the throttle returning the engine to slow idle.
By this time, a good 5 minutes has elapsed.

SHORT STOPS:
Generally, I leave the truck running and within my sight.
We are blessed to live in San Angelo, Texas where our crime rate (at least for yoinking FMV's) is very low and if anything I find a gathering of appreciative gawkers when I return who have a bevy of questions about the truck.

LONGER STOPS:
I seldom make stops spontaneously.
Since most stops are planned I do my best to "idle in" on final approach. I tend to keep the RPMs low in the first place, and therefore temps are not extreme. However, I do let her sit at idle while I chain the steering wheel, secure any loose items that could be pilfered, do a post-trip walk around, etc. To some degree, I intentionally take my time and some would say I'm even a bit "dramatic" in it. It's my belief that by slowly looking over the truck that i respect the vehicle I'm also a good ambassador for the hobby, I KNOW the condition of the vehicle when I've left it (vandal deterrent), and I'm also available for anyone who may have "stalked" me driving in and who might have questions, interest, or just want some pictures. Oh, and I ALWAYS offer to take pictures of THEM with the Deuce!!!
Upon returning to the truck I follow pretty much the same steps in appropriately reversed order.

SHUT-DOWN (END OF MISSION):
Since the approach to our yard gate is down a LONG residential alley paved with only CALICHE (a west Texas calcium gravel/powder) I idle in using 2nd gear/high range. This keeps the dust down as well as noise and exhaust temps. (I've already "run cool" into the neighborhood, knowing that shutdown will be happening soon.)
Once I'm at the gate, the whole parking procedure above (see START-UP) is run in reverse including a post-trip walk around.
Again, a good 5 minutes has already elapsed by the time i'm ready to pull the KILL CABLE's T-HANDLE.

THOUGHTS:
I know that if I really used the Deuce DAILY, I would find a far more convenient parking place and security arrangement. But that would take too much of the FUN our of owning and operating a LIVING HISTORY toy.

I hope this helps.

Carry on.

John

 

[Jericho]

I drive my M 109 A 3 daily, I run a pyrometer, I use 299 degrees as the shut down point, Its not oil temp your looking for, the exducer and the outer turbo housing are different thickness,s and cool at different rates, the goal is to get the Rotor (exducer ) and housing close enough in corrolation to allow shut down with out resulting in a seizure of the rotor to the housing. If it does sieze, let it cool and then start it back up after it rotates freely, get to temp and then cool properly and shut down. oil temp has to follow the rough operating temp of the engines internal oil temp, it had sufficient cooling capacity. by starting it back up and getting to op temp you will expand the housing and stretch the rotor stalks to normal length, cooling will put the dimensions back in sync. The five min time was a general time based on no observation of actual temps and using a SAFE cool down threshold for the turbo. Jet engines use the same principle

 

[plym49]

Thanks for the responses so far.

I have been using a variant of USAFSS's 'lollygagging' technique. Yes, you can burn up five minutes that way easy. I also, as some have mentioned, will do easy driving - such as pulling out of my garage with the truck in low gear and low range, without touching the throttle - I figure that if I am not stepping on the gas that that counts as far as idling time is concerned.

So all of those tricks - I agree and probably all of us have our versions.

I'm still unsure of the quick trip to the sandwich shop, for coffee, for cigars, to the hardware store - all of those quick hit and run errands. I don't always like to keep the motor running and I am paranoid about killing something in the turbo or whatever if I don't.

 

[dmetalmiki]

That's given me an interesting point to add. If I so choose, and I have on required occasions, run my pre-lube pumps at shutdown and let them run for as long after as I deem necessary Spin on's can't accomplish that.. just my 'farthings' worth.
https://youtu.be/9Gt6Y873VMg

 

[Styk33]

I don't daily drive my deuce, but I do start it up in the AM, when I drive to work, prior to me getting ready. It sits in my driveway (with the doors locked) and warms up, as I get dressed and such. By the time I get out to the truck and walk around it the temp gauge has already started to move. When I get to work, I just back it in and let it idle as I turn on my workstation and then head back out and shut the truck down. Leaving work is similar, I go out and start it up and then go back to my desk and do a few things. Arriving home, I park it, let it idle in the driveway, grab my mail, open it up and then head back out to shut it down. Depending on the drive home, depends on how long I let it idle for. As Jericho stated, the expansion and contraction of the different materials is the major reason for warm up and cool down. The turbos are not water cooled, so the oil temps need to cool down before shutting the turbo down and oil temps typically stay higher for longer.

 

[winfred]

300 degrees or less on a pyrometer is the accepted standard for the oil cooled turbos on dodge cummins turbos for a safe shut down, had my cummins so long i enter my street coasting down in gear in such a way by time i roll up my drive way its at 300 and ready to kill, haven't installed my pyro on the 109a3 yet so i am just mindful of it and treat it like my dually with a lil extra idle for good measure

 

[plym49]

Thanks for the replies and advice.

Now I have a variation.

Let's say I just want to move my Deuce from here to there, like out of the garage into the driveway sort of thing. Do I need to run it for 10 minutes total? Or can I start it up, move it in low range without pressing the gas pedal, and just shut it down (maybe 2 or 3 minutes total running)?

 

[DavidWymore]

Thanks for the replies and advice.

Now I have a variation.

Let's say I just want to move my Deuce from here to there, like out of the garage into the driveway sort of thing. Do I need to run it for 10 minutes total? Or can I start it up, move it in low range without pressing the gas pedal, and just shut it down (maybe 2 or 3 minutes total running)?

Not necessary I f you don't run it long or hard enough to get it hot.

I daily drive mine half the year when the weather is nice, mostly short hops to and from work. I let it warm up til the buzzer goes off and only bother to let it cool very long if I've gotten it good and hot.

 

[71DeuceAK]

DavidWymore, that's what I was hoping was the case; my situation may be similar, lots of quick hit and run errands to Fred Meyer/Walmart, etc.

 

[DavidWymore]

On the other hand, short trips aren't particularly good for diesels either, ha!

I try to get it out on the highway and up to temp at least once a week.

 

[Roaddog58]

I use it instead of a pick up, I start it up, let it get to oil pressure+ 15 seconds, 1st gear idle toward road[1400 ft]. By the time I'm at road its time to roll, on shut down Idle or coast to add to your shutdown time, don't get in a hurry. Enjoy the trucks, I use the air to run all kinds of tools, were almost done with my daughters house, used air nail guns, air saws ect.

 

[treva2]

If you don't allow enough time for the turbo to cool down after a run, when you shut the engine off the oil will sit in the turbo and cook from the elevated temp. of the turbo. It will cook the oil to a crisp then it will heat the seals beyond their limits. You may only need to do this one time and the seals will leak. Time for a turbo rebuild. This is the easy side of a failure. I have seen turbo drag cars make a pass return to the pits and shut the engine off quickly. That turbo can't be rebuilt. It is far more important to follow the shutdown procedure than the warmup procedure. Just words of caution.

 

[plym49]

If you don't allow enough time for the turbo to cool down after a run, when you shut the engine off the oil will sit in the turbo and cook from the elevated temp. of the turbo. It will cook the oil to a crisp then it will heat the seals beyond their limits. You may only need to do this one time and the seals will leak. Time for a turbo rebuild. This is the easy side of a failure. I have seen turbo drag cars make a pass return to the pits and shut the engine off quickly. That turbo can't be rebuilt. It is far more important to follow the shutdown procedure than the warmup procedure. Just words of caution.

So what is the purpose of the start-up five minutes? To make sure that the oil is warm enough to flow if it was a freezing cold start? So the turbo bearings and seals see only warm oil once the turbo starts spinning fast?

 

[plym49]

On the other hand, short trips aren't particularly good for diesels either, ha!

Why would it make any difference? That's another thing I have always wondered about - that diesels have to be left running all the time.