What is going on with this Flexplate? Out of round and bent? Yikes...

[rustystud]

http://www.tcsproducts.com/media/1/Converter_Cat1_1.pdf

good reference.

looks like there were diesel converters made with only 3 pads, and the pilot diameter is the same on them.

Any of the 3 bolt mount converters where for "light" duty only. The internals on all the 6 bolts units had brazed fins. This 6 bolt design was originally designed for the AT540 Allison . One of the tricks in the day was to use it for high torque trucks behind the TH400's . Then the factory started doing it when they came out with their diesel line.

 

[Ackevor]

Got truck back in. Had the the bell housing cover off and started the truck for him. The flex plate is wobbling all over. He said to order the new one (14077158 posted by Chaski above) and he will swap it out for me.

When asked about the washers he said there has to be a certain amount of gap between TC and FP which Iceman PM'd me is 1/4". He used the washers to maintain the right gap I guess.

 

[cucvrus]

I must be doing it all wrong. I never used any washer to maintain any gap between the torque converter and the flex-plate. I always replaced the 6 short M10 bolts with new ones and never used them over because of the locking material that is imbedded in the threads. I bought a box of 50 from the GM dealer years ago. Rustystud??????? what am I missing here. I changed a lot of flex-plates over the years. Most times with out removing the transmission from the vehicle. Good Luck. Not the time of year to be without the 4WD.

 

[Ackevor]

 

[cucvrus]

14077158 is a 6 bolt flex-plate. should be a direct fit with no washers.Gm Original Flex Plate, Flywheel, Diesel Only, Gm14077158.

 

[Ackevor]

No kidding, worst time to be without haha. I thought the spacer thing was a line of BS but what do I know. We will see how it goes when I bring in the new flexplate.

 

[Ackevor]

The TC is only 3 bolts... the pic has model number GM18A. Should the TC for a 700r4 be 6 bolts?

 

[cucvrus]

Look in the parts manual. No washers shown there. I never put any washers on any flex-plates of the CUCV's I worked on. I have changed quite a few flex-plates.

 

[cucvrus]

The TC is only 3 bolts... the pic has model number GM18A. Should the TC for a 700r4 be 6 bolts?

I cannot answer that. I will call Minetree transmission in Myerstown PA. So I will ask if it should have washers. He said NO that is NOT right. It should NOT have washers. Also if it has a 3 bolt torque converter it should have a 3 bolt flex-plate. He said that the 700R flex-plate has no weight on it. And the 400 flex-plate does. Thus the use of spacers. Don't stone me man. I am just trying to help. This man builds transmissions for a living and I trust him. He has rebuilt at least a hundred different transmissions for us over the years. If he is wrong prove it. But I am trying to help and it has some rhyme and reason to the answer. Look into it. See if the 700 R and the 400 TH have the same flex-plate. Thank you & Good Luck. I wish I could be more helpful.

 

[Ackevor]

The flex plate on it now has weight on it. I think he replaced it because its on the invoice but who knows. Everyone around this area swears by this place for the same reason. Done it forever and always quality work... until I bring in military truck and want a swap done haha. Ill have to find out exactly whats needed before I order a new flexplate then. I appreciate your help and calling your go to place, especially because I want to be certain if I replace the flex plate it won't just happen again because its actually the wrong torque converter.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Heck, that's a 'lot of inquiring' and a lot of checking. It's the Wrong component, and method of installing (at the least!) Nothing is going to change that. (so) The Shop that carried out that faulty work should (simply) be given the opportunity to FULLY rectify the incorrect work and fitting. I would not have devoted as much time and effort into the situation as you have.

 

[cucvrus]

Heck, that's a 'lot of inquiring' and a lot of checking. It's the Wrong component, and method of installing (at the least!) Nothing is going to change that. (so) The Shop that carried out that faulty work should (simply) be given the opportunity to FULLY rectify the incorrect work and fitting. I would not have devoted as much time and effort into the situation as you have.

I was just trying to help you out. I have a Cadillac transmission that needs getting rebuilt and I was checking on it and wanted to ask about this set up. I see guys going to the 700R on the CUCV's. Back 20 years ago. Everyone was buying the CUCV TH400 from me as fast as I could get them in and using the 700R's transmissions as cores. In the salvage business you get a core for most major components you sell. Engines, alternators, starters, transmissions, differentials. It also makes it easy to match up the parts part to part and keeps everyone honest. Batteries are the same way now. Good Luck. I hope it works out for you.

 

[royalflush55]

The flexplate needs to match the engine not the transmission. Internal or external balance of the engine rules here. The flexplate must match the engine.

Next it must be bolted to engine correctly. On an external balanced 6.2 diesel the holes must line up on the crank and flexplate. Also when the center hole of flexplate is cut it has a burr all the way around. This burr must always be mounted outward from the crank to be correct. The flexplate will not draw up correctly to the crank if installed in reverse of this. It will also not mate to starter correctly either!

I would use the heavy duty design diesel torque converter with six mounting pads. Align the vertical elongated hole in flexplate to converter mounting pad first. Then install the other five bolts before tightening any. There should be no need for washers as spacers ever if you have the correct parts (flexplate and torque converter).

Follow these procedures and good luck!

 

[rustystud]

This is the flexplate you need. http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...1156508,transmission-automatic,flexplate,8608 .
I told you earlier that the 6.2 diesel has an "external" balanced flexplate. You could have just used the original TH400 flexplate and elongated the holes a slight bit. As far as ever using "spacers" on a flexplate that is insane ! No one does that ! Not even the Japanese !
Also as an "aside" I'm sure once that transmission is removed you will see that that torque converter was not seating properly into the crank. That is why you had all that warpage.
Just buy this flexplate from "Rock Auto" and be done with it.

 

[rustystud]

For those who want to know, all Chevy gas engines are all internally balanced except the 400 and 454 engines. Also the newer generation 1 piece rear seal engines are also externally balanced. All the diesel engines where also externally balanced. Including the 6.2 you have here.

 

[Ackevor]

I was just trying to help you out. I have a Cadillac transmission that needs getting rebuilt and I was checking on it and wanted to ask about this set up. I see guys going to the 700R on the CUCV's. Back 20 years ago. Everyone was buying the CUCV TH400 from me as fast as I could get them in and using the 700R's transmissions as cores. In the salvage business you get a core for most major components you sell. Engines, alternators, starters, transmissions, differentials. It also makes it easy to match up the parts part to part and keeps everyone honest. Batteries are the same way now. Good Luck. I hope it works out for you.

You may have gotten dmetalmiki and I mixed up haha, he was saying I am doing too much legwork to figure this out when I should have just taken it back and said "fix it". I appreciate the info you have given me thus far. I would have been fine sticking with the TH400 but those 4.56 gears are atrocious on the highway and a lot more expensive to swap (maybe not so much now). I wanted to keep them in case I get away from using this truck for hauling my 2 ATV's on the highway. But until then I would like the quieter comfort of cruising 65-70 on the highway

Heck, that's a 'lot of inquiring' and a lot of checking. It's the Wrong component, and method of installing (at the least!) Nothing is going to change that. (so) The Shop that carried out that faulty work should (simply) be given the opportunity to FULLY rectify the incorrect work and fitting. I would not have devoted as much time and effort into the situation as you have.

I am too nice... I should go back with the parts list I gave him in the beginning and say he should take care of it since he installed a subpar torque converter and used the wrong flex plate.

This is the flexplate you need. http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...1156508,transmission-automatic,flexplate,8608 .
I told you earlier that the 6.2 diesel has an "external" balanced flexplate. You could have just used the original TH400 flexplate and elongated the holes a slight bit. As far as ever using "spacers" on a flexplate that is insane ! No one does that ! Not even the Japanese !
Also as an "aside" I'm sure once that transmission is removed you will see that that torque converter was not seating properly into the crank. That is why you had all that warpage.
Just buy this flexplate from "Rock Auto" and be done with it.

Yes you did mention that before and I remembered it. I have so much going I am only able to do one thing at a time otherwise this may have been sorted by now. Priorities changes by the day. Thanks for linking the Flex plate, I found on last week for a good price new but never ordered it because I wanted to see what the trans shop said. Even then it wasn't as low $25 that's crazy for a Flex plate, I may just buy it from RockAuto.

The flexplate needs to match the engine not the transmission. Internal or external balance of the engine rules here. The flexplate must match the engine.

Next it must be bolted to engine correctly. On an external balanced 6.2 diesel the holes must line up on the crank and flexplate. Also when the center hole of flexplate is cut it has a burr all the way around. This burr must always be mounted outward from the crank to be correct. The flexplate will not draw up correctly to the crank if installed in reverse of this. It will also not mate to starter correctly either!

I would use the heavy duty design diesel torque converter with six mounting pads. Align the vertical elongated hole in flexplate to converter mounting pad first. Then install the other five bolts before tightening any. There should be no need for washers as spacers ever if you have the correct parts (flexplate and torque converter).

Follow these procedures and good luck!

I have no idea why he thought going from a 6 pad TC to a 3 when he did the swap was a good idea. Although doing some research on the matter shows the 3 pad are better which is why the industry changed... too much controversial info out there its hard to know. Hopefully just the new Flex plate will solve these issues.


Thank you all for the input really. It's great having such a good group of people helping each other out.

 

[Ackevor]

Looked up the GM18A-TC Torque Converter he used and found and found this bit of info :

Codes: DE5F, DE8F, DEAF, DEBF,DF5F, DL5F, DL8F, DFAF
30 SPLINE (ON/OFF) NO PWM ! Paper Lining, Medium Stall (1600-1800)
12” diameter, 298mm , Pilot 1.703”, 3 Pads, 30 spline
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/TC-GM18A.html
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/4L60-700R4tc.html


Also Looking into the G134 flywheel code he used I found this:
G134 Flywheel, GM 6.2L, 6.5L diesel
Reference OEM # 14077158, Bolt pattern for a 700-R4 T/C only
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/FLYgm.html

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/G134.html
Interesting enough it matches the part number that site lists to the one referenced in this thread.

Did he use the right one after all but it was just junk then? How odd, the flexplate on it now looks identical to the one linked and that I find with the GM part number.

 

[rustystud]

Looked up the GM18A-TC Torque Converter he used and found and found this bit of info :

Codes: DE5F, DE8F, DEAF, DEBF,DF5F, DL5F, DL8F, DFAF
30 SPLINE (ON/OFF) NO PWM ! Paper Lining, Medium Stall (1600-1800)
12” diameter, 298mm , Pilot 1.703”, 3 Pads, 30 spline
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/TC-GM18A.html
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/4L60-700R4tc.html


Also Looking into the G134 flywheel code he used I found this:
G134 Flywheel, GM 6.2L, 6.5L diesel
Reference OEM # 14077158, Bolt pattern for a 700-R4 T/C only
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/FLYgm.html

http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/G134.html
Interesting enough it matches the part number that site lists to the one referenced in this thread.

Did he use the right one after all but it was just junk then? How odd, the flexplate on it now looks identical to the one linked and that I find with the GM part number.

You won't know for sure until you remove the transmission. I still believe they never got it into the crankshaft correctly, or it is the wrong torque converter and will not fit the pilot hole.

 

[Ackevor]

I ordered that Flex plate from Rock auto and should be here tomorrow afternoon. Unfortunately I have orders to go to Wright Patterson AFB tomorrow after work and will return Friday night. Splendid 4.5 hour drive one way... Hopefully get the truck back in by Monday and have it back Tuesday. I will make him a checklist hehe, anything in particular I should put on it besides don't screw it up ?

 

[rustystud]

I ordered that Flex plate from Rock auto and should be here tomorrow afternoon. Unfortunately I have orders to go to Wright Patterson AFB tomorrow after work and will return Friday night. Splendid 4.5 hour drive one way... Hopefully get the truck back in by Monday and have it back Tuesday. I will make him a checklist hehe, anything in particular I should put on it besides don't screw it up ?

No, I think "don't screw it up" just about covers it !