FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[General Hood]

I have a set of the 12' NATO jumpers as well, but had some new NATO slave receptacles gathering dust in the garage so I made up a longer jumper that's 25 ft long. It's nice for the longer reach but it sure is heavy to lug around since I used 1 0/ cable

 

[The FLU farm]

I have a 24V NATO jumper cable. When it's plugged into a FLU, power bypasses the master cutoff switch (!). Confirmed via wiring diagram. Master switch off, dash switch on, dash lights etc. will work if power's plugged into the NATO receptacle on both my FLUs. This won't happen with jumper cables on the batteries. I can't imagine why this is a good thing, kinda losing sleep at night since, any thoughts appreciated on why that's the case!

I would imagine that they figured that the jumper cables are being used for a reason, therefore the wiring is routed to minimize any voltage losses.
Forgot to put the master key in once when jump starting a SEE, and sure enough, just like the wiring (and diagram) suggests, it wasn't needed.

 

[BigBison]

I don't have time for further investigation today, maybe over the weekend? Unless someone knows the answer. Sometimes, milspec is awesome, other times it makes no sense! I haven't decided, yet, on this one -- why on Earth does using the NATO receptacle bypass the master cutoff switch? I had an idea, but testing it out just now proved me wrong. There has to be some reason! Y'all who have HMMV's etc. may know?

I'm willing to lug 24' of 1/0 cable + big burly connectors around, if I'm nowhere near an AC outlet to plug in a 24V charger/jumper, saves from having to use two sets of jumper cables connected to two 12V vehicles to get a FLU started. Yeah, yeah, just don't let the batteries die! Easier said than done on my re-wired SEE with electrical leakage, vs. my OEM solid HMMH... sometimes the SEE just dies and it's really easy to use the HMMH + NATO cable to start the SEE, except my cable's too darn short.

The good batteries are in the HMMH, the crappy ones (haven't received the LiFeYPO4 battery yet) are on the re-wired SEE, so jump-starting my SEE is a regular occurrence, often in tight spots.

 

[BigBison]

I would imagine that they figured that the jumper cables are being used for a reason, therefore the wiring is routed to minimize any voltage losses.

Hmmm... voltage loss... possibly correct! I'll be disconnecting batteries and using an ohmmeter this weekend, because it's just bugging me... is it possible to run a FLU with no batteries, without connecting the battery cables together, if the NATO receptacle is externally powered? If so, why in the world would that ever be necessary? lol, I'm stumped

 

[The FLU farm]

A FLU shouldn't need any batteries whatsoever to run. Park on a hill and roll start it. It may not be kind to the alternator, but it's fully doable.
Just don't stall the engine in an awkward spot.

 

[General Hood]

A FLU shouldn't need any batteries whatsoever to run. Park on a hill and roll start it. It may not be kind to the alternator, but it's fully doable.
Just don't stall the engine in an awkward spot.

I'm looking forward to your YouTube video on roll starting

 

[BigBison]

A FLU shouldn't need any batteries whatsoever to run. Park on a hill and roll start it. It may not be kind to the alternator, but it's fully doable.
Just don't stall the engine in an awkward spot.

OK, ya dragged a story out of me!

Recently, I was driving the SEE on the 2.5 miles of state highway between my rental and my quonset hut, on the return journey after using the SEE bucket to transport my pellet stove. What broke, was the alternator-to-ground connection. Not sure when that happened, but my crappiest batteries are on the SEE these days and "see-ing" as how I operate it on public roads, the light switch is set for highway use, i.e. brake lights / turn signals / reverse beeper are engaged and drain the batteries if they aren't charging.

The highway has deep ditches both sides, but there is a pullout. I stopped there and shut down to take a call on my cell, once I was back in range... couldn't re-start. Had to call my buddy to fetch the HMMH to me, plus the NATO cable from my utility bed. Blocked a lane of traffic, nobody drove by though, got the SEE started right back up. I'm an expert at roll-starting (used to park my Rabbit on top of hills at home/work for a few months saving for a starter motor), but that's one level stretch of road, and FLUs are right heavy to push.

 

[alpine44]

I don't have time for further investigation today, maybe over the weekend? Unless someone knows the answer. Sometimes, milspec is awesome, other times it makes no sense! I haven't decided, yet, on this one -- why on Earth does using the NATO receptacle bypass the master cutoff switch? I had an idea, but testing it out just now proved me wrong. There has to be some reason! Y'all who have HMMV's etc. may know?

I'm willing to lug 24' of 1/0 cable + big burly connectors around, if I'm nowhere near an AC outlet to plug in a 24V charger/jumper, saves from having to use two sets of jumper cables connected to two 12V vehicles to get a FLU started. Yeah, yeah, just don't let the batteries die! Easier said than done on my re-wired SEE with electrical leakage, vs. my OEM solid HMMH... sometimes the SEE just dies and it's really easy to use the HMMH + NATO cable to start the SEE, except my cable's too darn short.

The good batteries are in the HMMH, the crappy ones (haven't received the LiFeYPO4 battery yet) are on the re-wired SEE, so jump-starting my SEE is a regular occurrence, often in tight spots.

Why not take the ground cable off the battery when you park the SEE until you get the time/motivation to find the wiring fault?
You can also hunt down some cheap, refurbished batteries and built a jump cart that is connected to a charger until needed. Every airport has one of these as a master switch being left "On" yields the same result as your leaky wiring. (Hand propping an airplane engine is a bit dicier than roll starting a vehicle. There is the urban legend of an airplane not properly secured while being hand-propped. The plane started, got away from the pilot, took off, ran out of fuel, and landed by itself - all without a scratch. There are also insurance reports of bodies or other airplanes being chopped to pieces by a run-away bird)

 

[General Hood]

OK, ya dragged a story out of me!


When I park my SEEs I usually put the backhoe bucket teeth into the ground and deploy the feet, Roll start would be out of the question. Call it lazy, but I had batteries stolen out of a SEE a while back, and the SEE itself wasn't going anywhere--teeth and feet in the ground

 

[peakbagger]

Well I have managed to roll start my SEE a couple times, unfortunately I managed to roll start it so the engine was running backwards. Usually happens when I am pushing a load uphill and stall it. The is definitely not recommended as the oil pump apparently only pumps oil when the engine is running the right direction.

 

[The FLU farm]

When I park my SEEs I usually put the backhoe bucket teeth into the ground and deploy the feet, Roll start would be out of the question. Call it lazy, but I had batteries stolen out of a SEE a while back, and the SEE itself wasn't going anywhere--teeth and feet in the ground

You know darn well that I lack the equipment and knowledge to do anything You-Tubey. And even if i did, it could turn into a hand propped air plane situation if I was outside filming instead of at the controls.
Anyway, if I parked my SEE with the loader, stabilizers and backhoe down, I'd lift it so high that the batteries couldn't be stolen. At least not without a ladder.

I have push started vehicles a few times using a tow bar, and with a SEE I would definitely prefer using a tow bar instead of a strap or chain. It's bad enough to have a small, light vehicle that's easy to get into coming up on you from behind once it starts.

 

[The FLU farm]

Well I have managed to roll start my SEE a couple times, unfortunately I managed to roll start it so the engine was running backwards. Usually happens when I am pushing a load uphill and stall it. The is definitely not recommended as the oil pump apparently only pumps oil when the engine is running the right direction.

Did you put it in Reverse, or just dump the clutch once it built a bit of speed? If it's the latter, I can certainly understand that it ended up running backwards.
Should result in good fuel mileage, though, without the extra drag of the oil pump.

 

[alpine44]

Well I have managed to roll start my SEE a couple times, unfortunately I managed to roll start it so the engine was running backwards. Usually happens when I am pushing a load uphill and stall it. The is definitely not recommended as the oil pump apparently only pumps oil when the engine is running the right direction.

Aside from the obvious point of choosing a gear that goes in the direction of roll starting (R if you roll backwards), the key to success is choosing a sufficiently high gear. Choosing a low gear will lead to a lot of bucking and possibly a reverse start.

 

[alpine44]

Time for some engine p0rn on the topic of starting and (intentionally) reversing a 6 cylinder diesel engine without a battery:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKgYJGsTKdI

 

[anthkey]

anyone know where or what the torque specs are for the rear hubs..? I have to replace the seal ring... I have searched the manuals.. to no avail..

 

[Migginsbros]

anyone know where or what the torque specs are for the rear hubs..? I have to replace the seal ring... I have searched the manuals.. to no avail..

We have replaced the seals from our 406 aircraft tug. Think the hubs are the same.
The central crown nut M20 x 1,5 torque to 220Nm
The M16 x 1,5 (10 off) torque to 320Nm

Do not overtight the crown nut due to danger of dynamical forces will break the big spacer.

 

[BigBison]

If you wonder about the ugly rear lights, we had install them for street legal use. The original lights are behind the protective grid. Easy to switch back.

TUV gepfrueft... both my FLUs passed muster with the highway patrol, with the OEM lights.

 

[Migginsbros]

Look, there is a SEE nominated for the SS MV of the month.
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...-Soldiers-MV-of-the-month-2017-July-VOTE-HERE!

 

[The FLU farm]

Finally got a chance to spend some quality time with the SEEs, the "formerly" to be specific.
A couple of days ago, changed the rear hydraulic fluid, which created a large mess due to the fuel tank sitting so high on that one.
Today the new hydraulic cooling fan that was bought to replace the one I stole off of "formerly" back when it was still considered a parts SEE got installed. It fit two of the four mounting studs perfectly, and it doesn't look like it'll go anywhere without the other two. Notice the significantly larger motor, plus this one is said to be water proof. I think it may be for an HMMWV - either way, the price was right.

Another thing was that the 1-inch impact not only decided to start working today, but it loosened the bolts for the loader with relative ease.
Guess that means it's time to build a support for the loader.

 

[alpine44]

Finally got a chance to spend some quality time with the SEEs, the "formerly" to be specific.
A couple of days ago, changed the rear hydraulic fluid, which created a large mess due to the fuel tank sitting so high on that one.
Today the new hydraulic cooling fan that was bought to replace the one I stole off of "formerly" back when it was still considered a parts SEE got installed. It fit two of the four mounting studs perfectly, and it doesn't look like it'll go anywhere without the other two.View attachment 690282 Notice the significantly larger motor, plus this one is said to be water proof. I think it may be for an HMMWV - either way, the price was right.

Another thing was that the 1-inch impact not only decided to start working today, but it loosened the bolts for the loader with relative ease.View attachment 690283
Guess that means it's time to build a support for the loader.

To support the front loader when removed from the SEE, I ordered this jack, welded a 4" long 2"x4" tubing on the bottom of the outer, black tube and replaced the inner 2" square tube with a longer section so that the whole jack is 60" in the contracted position (~40" from bottom plate to top of welded rectangular tube).

The welded-on rectangular tube engages in the pocket of the front loader, secured by a cross-pin. (I marked the needed hole in place and drilled after welding since my machine vise would not clamp 4" anyway)