Multifuel timing off

[rickdavis81]

I've been tinkering with my multifuel dumptruck when I have spare time, which is never. Changed the fuel filters, still need to dump the tank and refill with fresh diesel. The previous owner said he replaced the ip because it was leaking diesel and couldn't get it to start easily afterwards. I went to check the timing and with the crank lined up on the appropriate mark the ip appears to be off half a tooth, maybe little more. My understanding is I can loosen up the 3 bolts on the pulley and adjust it to take care of this. Would being off that little bit cause hard start? The red painted tooth on the hh is on the pointer, but if I understand correctly when the ip is lined up on its mark it'll be towards the rear a bit, but it also sounds like the hh red tooth has nothing to do with timing. Also the fuel shut off cable was not hooked back up. Is it needed? Is it just for shutting off the truck? The lever is all the towards the front of the truck as if the cable was not pulled.

 

[Floridianson]

Correct timing is crank is on it's mark TDC. Four bolt advanced window on IP is on it's mark and the Head scribe mark and it's pointer will look to be one tooth off to the rear. Yes with the shut down cover off the fuel control linkage will be forward with engine off or maybe 7 o'clock and with your finger it should very easy go to the 4 o'clock but snap back when released. Seven is WOT and four is shut down.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I've been tinkering with my multifuel dumptruck when I have spare time, which is never. Changed the fuel filters, still need to dump the tank and refill with fresh diesel. The previous owner said he replaced the ip because it was leaking diesel and couldn't get it to start easily afterwards. I went to check the timing and with the crank lined up on the appropriate mark the ip appears to be off half a tooth, maybe little more. My understanding is I can loosen up the 3 bolts on the pulley and adjust it to take care of this. Would being off that little bit cause hard start? The red painted tooth on the hh is on the pointer, but if I understand correctly when the ip is lined up on its mark it'll be towards the rear a bit, but it also sounds like the hh red tooth has nothing to do with timing. Also the fuel shut off cable was not hooked back up. Is it needed? Is it just for shutting off the truck? The lever is all the towards the front of the truck as if the cable was not pulled.

The red scribed tooth is ONLY TO LINE UP THE HEAD WITH THE IP. It is not used in timing the IP to the motor.

If you line up the mark on the harmonic balancer and the advance unit in front of the hyd head, and the red scored tooth is visible(only visible, not lined up), and the valves on cyl one are closed, your good to go. The red scored tooth ONLY tells you when your lined up(with the quill shaft) so the hyd head will come out of the IP.

 

[Floridianson]

As you said the scribe/red mark tooth on head when it is on it's mark then we are ok to remove the Head. But correct timing is crank TDC advance window on it's mark then Head one tooth to the rear so it is used to check timing.

 

[rickdavis81]

I guess my main question, with the ip being off by a half to full tooth will it cause an extreme hard start condition. I'm going down to work on it Monday but it's got me wondering this weekend.

 

[Floridianson]

I guess my main question, with the ip being off by a half to full tooth will it cause an extreme hard start condition. I'm going down to work on it Monday but it's got me wondering this weekend.

I had to correct my post as I am loosing my mind but yes the correct timing the tooth should be just about a tooth off to the rear. Everyone I have done comes out to be as the picture in the TM's 3/4 off to the rear when the other timing marks are correct. My only point we have people doing crazy stuff. I don't think it would be very easy to get the quill shaft and Head scribe mark off to the point where it would be lets say three teeth to the front but stranger things have happened. Gimpyrobb is correct as the TM tells us that if it is visible then we are good. I just always check on the Heads I have put in that they are close to what looks like to me 3/4 tooth off to the rear. Your question if the scribe line /red paint is off the IP mark by lets call it 3/4 tooth to the rear then that to me is correct. If yours is like that then you are good.
The TM picture is not that good but it does show if your just checking timing not removing the Head looks to be 3/4 tooth off. Read the TM trouble shooting manual its a big help.

 

[rickdavis81]

I might of worded it wrong but the ip mark under the 4 bolt window was off by a tooth or so. I reset the timing yesterday so it lines up but am still having starting issues

 

[gimpyrobb]

Yeah, you worded it wrong. There is no teeth in that 4bolt window.

 

[rickdavis81]

Makes sense now lol

 

[rickdavis81]

Ok so I got it going. Why are there more than one marks on the timing part under the 4 bolt window?

 

[Floridianson]

Ok so I got it going. Why are there more than one marks on the timing part under the 4 bolt window?

It would be the center line as per tm don't know why it looks like three lines but maybe that where they started and ended the paint mark. As said just look over the Troubleshooting manual.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I've never seen the disk have more than one mark. The correct timing has a slot on the disk that the pointer lines up with. Maybe wipe the disk off with a Q-tip or rag once you think your close to see it better.

 

[rickdavis81]

I did. One mark the red tooth was not visible another it is

 

[Floridianson]

Your making me think to much and it hurts will you please read the Troubleshooting the 465-1
In there they tell you if you are just installing the IP into the motor then we line up the beginning of the white line on the advance window pointer and the Head scribe plus IP pointer will be inline but this is not the correct timing. When the advance window white paint and the Head scribe mark are in line it just tells us that the injector pump is on the pumping stroke for number one fuel port and ready to be installed into the motor. Then as it tells us we install the IP gear and set correct timing. Again please read TM to help you help me not loose what's left.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I did. One mark the red tooth was not visible another it is

You need to learn the correct terms of what your working on. There is no "teeth" in the advance unit. Thats the disk under the 4 bolt window. No colors in there either.

So, now it sounds like your talking about the gear that drives the hyd head when you talk about the "red scored tooth".

 

[rickdavis81]

Yeah someone already called out my mistake on that. My bad

 

[Floridianson]

As said you will use the middle mark on the advance window (four bolt plate) for correct timing. Gimpyrobb found the fast way to find correct TDC. Take off the oil filler cap and when the crank is on TDC pointer the # 2 exhaust will be open. When you look down the oil filler cap it will be the valve just to the front of the cap hole and you can see it is down. Then with the correct TDC and the advance window on is on the middle or on it's scribe mark the Head scribe/red paint tooth should be seen and close to what the TM's calls approximately one tooth off to rear. The TM does say white paint but it might not be there so maybe what you are seeing is three scribe marks on the advance hub but as said we use the middle one for correct timing.

 

[rickdavis81]

I got it timed and running yesterday. Made my day. Heading to the shop to start working on putting the front end back on now

 

[Floridianson]

I got it timed and running yesterday. Made my day. Heading to the shop to start working on putting the front end back on now

So happy four you as my fingers were getting tired.
To answer why the are three marks /white paint on the advance timing disc. From reading when they put the IP on the test stand they use the advance window and rotate the unit just bit to each point and measure when the injection begins to drip then full injection then port close. If not in specs then they have to rebuild/fix the problem.