Has anyone tried to fit this pump in?

[rustystud]

The fact is, the scans in your last post don't list a 30R10-rated 1/2" ID product, which is what the hurdle has been throughout this entire volley of posts.


I just have to point this out as you didn't read the spec sheet. Read the highlighted parts.

View attachment Scan0256.pdf

Note the part where it says "exceeds the SAE 30R10 rating" .

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

Rusty, we've already established in post #115 that Gates makes many variants of 4219 Series hose, some are fuel submersible, some are not. By Gates' own admission, the 4219 variant that is 30R10/Submersible rated is not available in 1/2" ID. Now, you made a claim in post #101, on 3/22 at 00:45 hours, stating that; "Gates" makes 1/2" immersion rated fuel hose. There are several suppliers out there..." So, stop stalling, pony-up. Instead of dodging what you said in post #101, deflecting by telling folks I disagree with you simply because I don't like you, instead of continually taking things out of context (implying that all 4219 series is fuel submersible, and therefore available in 1/2 ID), instead of constantly negating those 3 criteria that have been stated again in post #102, #104, #115, and yet again in your very last post above, I'm asking you once more to prove your post #101 claim, and provide a legitimate link, from a U.S. based supplier, that includes ALL 3 (THREE) of these attributes in 1 (ONE) listing;
-1/2" ID
-SAE30R10 Rated/Certified for Submersible use
-In Stock/Available
If you can do this, I'll admit right here in front of God and eveyone that I was dead wrong. However, If you can't do this, Please have the fortitude to admit you're wrong instead of deflecting again.

This Gates document flat-out, in concise, and no uncertain terms, states that the ONLY hose they produce which is acceptable for submersible/in tank use is that which is rated as SAE30R10, and the document also shows that Gates does not currently produce any 1/2" ID 30R10 hose.

 

[big block 88]

https://m.ebay.com/itm/GATES-27342-...yBugeGLYwj2cTvoa&_trksid=p2489528.m4335.l8656

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

https://m.ebay.com/itm/GATES-27342-...yBugeGLYwj2cTvoa&_trksid=p2489528.m4335.l8656

Just got off the phone with Gary, Gates Industrial Hose and Hydraulic representative, @ 303-744-5070. Gary stated that the hose in that listing (Gates Product ID #42196150, Part# 27342) while being J30R14T2 rated (not synonymous with J30R10), is not 30R10 rated, and absolutely not intended for submersible use. So, directly from a Gates Rep., the "Item Specifics" portion of the above listing is incorrect. Gary went on to say that Gates does not curently make any 1/2" ID 30R10 fuel submersible hose.

Gates Barricade Fuel Injection Hose product document clearly stating "DO NOT SUBMERSE IN FUEL"

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

Hmmmm. Thanked over 5000 times and been around 5 years longer. Thanked 35 times and seems to be the agitator.

Rusty that hose is fine and i have run it for years.

I can surely see how it's handy to figure the guy with 5k+ likes must be right, and the newer guy must be wrong... but here's the thing... if the in-tank hose on someone else's truck goes south, because they followed You and Rusty's lead by installing a hose that isn't 30R10 submersible rated, most likely it's not going to be You and Rusty that foot the bill for a tow if needed, or shell-out for any new parts required, or put in the labor needed to make the other guy's truck right again.

I honestly hope you guys can prove me wrong, because as soon as you can find a new hose that's;
1. 1/2" ID
2. 30R10 Rated
3. In stock here in the U.S....
I'm going to place an order and have it headed my way. Won't cost me a thing to tell You and Rusty if I was wrong.

 

[big block 88]

Im not overly worries about it. Ive used it for year and never had an issue. People like you who look for someone/anyone to blame if things go south are why these hobbies get in trouble. Is this why in your thread about a double steering stabilizer you have disclaimers in it? If you feel that is needed then you need to move on. You do your part and help folks you dont need to back **** up with disclaimers. This is a forum theres guys on this site who have forgotten more than i will ever know and some one like yourself (either a flat biller, lawyer or engineer i cant decide yet) who has been around for a couple years go after a member here who has helped more members here than either of us ever will is unacceptable to me. I dont care who you are this site was fine before you were here and will be fine (perhaps better if you advocate lawyering up about any and everything you read on here) once you lose interest and go onto something else shiny.

Id challenge any a$$hat on this planet to come see me and threaten me over something on this site. It will end badly for them. You advocate lawyering up like a truely entitled law student yourself, no hair off my a$$.

Now i cant say i fully disagree with you on all fronts your signature is something i have preached for years on here, (sometimes it gets a bit stupid on whats being asked) for the most part new members need some quick help and thats fine. I am assuming your qual with rusty stems from his pov on the tm's... i have had my eye rolls with him also but his knowledge is unquestionable and knows his $hit.

Once agian i dont know you from Adam but you spouting off about lawsuits and having to foot the bill for someones repairs (mind you ive fixed other trucks 100's of times for no charge). You wanna play that game i will disassemble said individuals truck to the point that i find an underlying issue that ultimately caused the failure before my "$hit" info destroyed their truck. And i will find an issue i assure you

i posted what ive used for years. That states it is compliant. If it isnt and something goes wrong its on the vendor not me.

Carry on.

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

Im not overly worries about it. Ive used it for year and never had an issue. People like you who look for someone/anyone to blame if things go south are why these hobbies get in trouble. Is this why in your thread about a double steering stabilizer you have disclaimers in it? If you feel that is needed then you need to move on. You do your part and help folks you dont need to back **** up with disclaimers. This is a forum theres guys on this site who have forgotten more than i will ever know and some one like yourself (either a flat biller, lawyer or engineer i cant decide yet) who has been around for a couple years go after a member here who has helped more members here than either of us ever will is unacceptable to me. I dont care who you are this site was fine before you were here and will be fine (perhaps better if you advocate lawyering up about any and everything you read on here) once you lose interest and go onto something else shiny.

Id challenge any a$$hat on this planet to come see me and threaten me over something on this site. It will end badly for them. You advocate lawyering up like a truely entitled law student yourself, no hair off my a$$.

Now i cant say i fully disagree with you on all fronts your signature is something i have preached for years on here, (sometimes it gets a bit stupid on whats being asked) for the most part new members need some quick help and thats fine. I am assuming your qual with rusty stems from his pov on the tm's... i have had my eye rolls with him also but his knowledge is unquestionable and knows his $hit.

Once agian i dont know you from Adam but you spouting off about lawsuits and having to foot the bill for someones repairs (mind you ive fixed other trucks 100's of times for no charge). You wanna play that game i will disassemble said individuals truck to the point that i find an underlying issue that ultimately caused the failure before my "$hit" info destroyed their truck. And i will find an issue i assure you

i posted what ive used for years. That states it is compliant. If it isnt and something goes wrong its on the vendor not me.

Carry on.

Nothing written in this thread has warranted any threats or expletives. You are far more impressed with that crap than I am. I spent so many years as a Range Officer on firing lines that I tend to objectively call people out for their actions, like rusty's false #101 post. Never understood the need for calling folks names or threatening them, and I've never done so on this forum. - MN

 

[big block 88]

I spent so many years as a Range Officer on firing lines that I tend to objectively call people out for their actions, never understood the need for calling folks names or threatening them, and I've never done so on this forum. - MN

call me out all you want sir. I will post what works for me with out stamping disclaimers on everything. If you like it use it. If not dont use it. Simple $hit.

Good luck and carry on.

 

[marchplumber]

WOW! Embarrassing......................

"take what you want/need, leave the rest"

Maybe a break? Time to "kewl" down? Gee fellas,..........................................

 

[rustystud]

OK, after talking with the Gates representative, the Tech guy from "Olympic" pumps and several others today I found out what is going on. There was a "revision" to the SAE J30R10 standard due to the change in "gasoline" . So the "Gates" hose series "4219-0102" which many of us here have used for years no longer meets that requirement. It has nothing to do with "Diesel fuel" only gasoline, but since the standard specifically states the "SAE J30R10" standard must meet "gasoline, alcohol-extended gasoline, or diesel fuel" it can no longer be advertised or sold as such anymore. Since I don't plan on using gasoline in my Deuce I will be fine still using the Gates 4219-0102 hose. Also according to the Tech at "Motion Industries" Gates has over 40,000 ft in stock right now. So like I originally posted, this Gates hose will work just fine for our Deuce and 5 ton trucks.
Just a side note. Gates has no plans to make a 1/2" ID SAE J30R10 rated hose since there is no market for it. Most all Diesel trucks today use 3/8" fuel lines.

View attachment Scan0258.pdfView attachment Scan0256.pdf

This first document states what the SAE J30R10 standard is. The second document is an "old" Gates add which shows the 4219 series hose exceeded the SAE J30R10 standards.

What is so funny about all this "ruckus" about fuel hose "ratings" is those running any truck that has not changed out their fuel hose since they bought their truck from the government. Your fuel hose is "NOT" rated to be submerged !!!!
OH MY !!!!!!!! The horror !!!!!!
Just goes to show you how crazy people can get when they don't know the facts about something.

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

At the time of this writing Gates does not produce a 1/2" ID hose that they recommend for in-tank/sumbersible use with today's fuels. (Gary, Gates Industrial Hose and Hydraulic representative, ph.303-744-5070). But, here's contact info with links to a supplier for 1/2" ID Fluoroelastomer hose (what Viton is made of). I spoke directly to the owner (Graydon), and he told me straight out that this hose will work fine for in-tank use with any-dang modern fuel you'd likely run in your Deuce, including Diesel, Biodiesel* and Biodiesel blends*, and even Gasoline, for $11.50 a foot. *Biodiesel/Blends is becoming more of an issue because it's use is becoming mandated in some places, and many pump hoses in our old trucks are Nitrile, and Nitrile has a poor compatibility with Biodiesel (see "Military Study" scan below)...

Utah Biodiesel Supply
2863 W 1010 N
Clinton, UT 84015
801-820-5753 (Graydon)

Direct Product link to the Hose;
https://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/...elfuelhose.php


We've used this hose on our own personal diesel vehicles to replace the existing rubber fuel lines. Its been working extremely well and holds up to Biodiesel much better than the rubber lines do. The fluoroelastomer fuel line hose is rated to handle temperatures up to 400° F which makes it an ideal hose to use for waste vegetable oil (wvo) applications as well!
When converting a diesel vehicle to run on 100% Biodiesel, it's always a good idea to swap out all of the rubber fuel lines with Biodiesel compatible hose. Our B100 Fuel Line Hose is perfect for that application! Pick some up today!
[HR][/HR]

• Biodiesel Fluoroelastomer Fuel Hose Features
• Available in 1/2", 3/8", 5/16", 1/4", and 1/8" inner diameter sizes
• Capable of 75 to 100 psi at 70° F
• Can handle up to 400°. F temperatures
• 100% compatible with B100 (100%) Biodiesel
• Perfect for Biodiesel or Waste Vegetable Oil applications
• Works great as a replacement for rubber fuel lines
• Made from synthetic fluoroelastomer material
  -Same material Viton hose is made from
• Available in several sizes

It's important to mention that they haven't gone through the hoops to get this hose 30R10 rated. However, I've looked into Tygon, Nylon, Teflon, Nitrile, etc., talked to reps from various manufacturers, looked over chemical/material compatability sheets until I was bleary-eyed, and this is the only material/supplier combination I came across who openly stated "No problem" using this hose for our in-tank pumps (Fluoroelastomer is listed as having "Excellent" compatibility with all fuels we'd likely use, and this hose is Fluoroelastomer inside and out).

Also in my quest I called a more well-known supplier, DudaDiesel, on the 22nd of this month (another supplier of Fluoroelastomer hose), and during normal business hours I was put through to what was obviously a call center on another continent, even though they list an Alabama address. The rep could not answer my question, told me they'd pass the question on to a manager, and they'd call me back. Never happened. Called again today, normal business hours, and once again got put through to a person who spoke broken english. After having to repeat what product I was intersted in twice I gave up.

 

[frank8003]

Yesterday at O'Dark Thirty I wanted to post this but did not.
It is time now.

Gee, you could put a piece of garden hose on it and it will last a week or so. Gee, all this is about a hose?
You're killin me.

Just go get a hose and put it on, take many pictures for the General and report back with the photos.
The way that Steel Soldiers works best is about the interchange of better information and parts to keep this stuff going.
Most here do not have time for posting inconsequential findings except for fun and help.

The conjecture of what may think in a particular place or time has no bearing, We just want stuff fixed, and do ask others for help.
Most do not tear apart most of everything others have stated.
Just read the book and make your own decisions.

The truck was built as good as could be back in the day. Get and use a slide rule. I just can't even imagine what it is going to be like when you actually have to fix something.
Have to go now, more cartoons and popcorn.

Oh, and when I did-redid my in-tank pump I needed a new hose, I almost had wingnuts on that thing because I was experimenting but the first hose I bought worked just fine and never broke down, bought it on Amazon or eBay.
There is lots of it out there.

 

[Floridianson]

Hmmmm. Thanked over 5000 times and been around 5 years longer. Thanked 35 times and seems to be the agitator.

Rusty that hose is fine and i have run it for years.

This should be a forum but sometimes seems like kindergarten. Seems like someone has taken my job of kicking the bees nest. If you want to talk about post/thanked do the math. Rusty 6996 post thanked 2095. Nemesis post 65 thanked 38 which is a higher percentage per post. Rustystud has added a lot to SS and I hope Nemesis will to. To me how many times someone has posted means nothing as there is a thing called post Whore. That is a post with no value but done just to get post count up. I don't care about thanks but it is nice to see. If I was really smart I would be a doctor. Better yet a Rock star and my money for nothing and the chicks for free. I want my MTV. As said above carry on like grown ups and share info that's all.

 

[big block 88]

More about years of expierience and guys who build not buy things finished. Ive seen one guy helping for years and one guy not doin a whole lot (YET). Perhaps i will be proved wrong. I do believe in the internet has no tone or inflection. He could be a great guy who just comes off as confrontational. I reserve judgement till meeting in person. (Start threatening me with repair bills on your truck from my help and input though its hard not to label someone).

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

More about years of expierience and guys who build not buy things finished. Ive seen one guy helping for years and one guy not doin a whole lot (YET). Perhaps i will be proved wrong. I do believe in the internet has no tone or inflection. He could be a great guy who just comes off as confrontational. I reserve judgement till meeting in person. (Start threatening me with repair bills on your truck from my help and input though its hard not to label someone).

Please, take a moment to re-read the post you're referring to...

I can surely see how it's handy to figure the guy with 5k+ likes must be right, and the newer guy must be wrong... but here's the thing... if the in-tank hose on someone else's truck goes south, because they followed You and Rusty's lead by installing a hose that isn't 30R10 submersible rated, most likely it's NOT going to be You and Rusty that foot the bill for a tow if needed, or shell-out for any new parts required, or put in the labor needed to make the other guy's truck right again.

This is the wording of the original post. I added more beneath that paragraph later on, but, Hand-to-God, I haven't edited the wording in the paragraph since before you posted your reply to it. What I was implying was the owner of the truck would have to take on any/all hardship in the event of a breakdown, not You and Rusty. If you have email notification when someone posts to the thread, go back and check the content that originally hit your in box and read it carefully. You'll see that no one was threatening any lawsuit. And in my Steering Stabilizer thread, I was merely stating that folks need to take responsibility for the steering mods they do to their own trucks. Same principle, it's the owner that ultimately shoulders the consequences for mods they do to their trucks, regardless of what inspired them to make the mods, good or bad... no lawsuit threat there either. If you knew me you'd know of the disdain that I too have for most lawyers, and frivolous lawsuits. - MN

 

[rustystud]

OK this will be my last post on this matter (but I'm sure I will be dragged back in) . I received a call back from "Olympic Controls" . These are the people who make the original fuel pump for the deuce. They said they get their hoses from "Motion Industries" and the part number is : ready for this ! Gates 4219-0102 . The very same hose I have said all along that is the correct hose for our trucks.
Now I know there are some here who think "why waste time on this whole subject" .The answer is simple. This hose works and only costs $2.09 per ft. Now this "new guy" comes along and says because this hose no longer meets SAE J30R10 specifications we must all buy this "new" hose which costs $11.50 per ft. Well that is just ridiculous ! This hose has met our needs for decades and will continue to meet our needs for the distant future. What this person fails to understand is this hose was the standard for decades. Now a new standard has come along due to "gasoline" being different and the old hose does not meet the standards anymore. It doesn't meet the standards for "GASOLINE" !!!! Our trucks still run on "DIESEL" fuel last time I checked. What I don't want to see happen is some new owner coming along and looking for answers and see this post about our old hose not meeting the "new" standards and the post from Menaces Nemesis showing a wrong hose installed and the effects it has being submerged saying "this will happen to you if you use the hose Rustystud recommends". That kind of garbage posting really gets me angry ! It's not about MY pride being hurt according to "MN" , but telling LIES to scare people. I've always said I will to the best of my ability post factual content so that "rumors" and "Lies" and "old wives tales" can be put to rest. Now before "MN" posts again about his contact at Gates saying this hose does not meet the new standard, just ask him did it meet the standards last year ? I know legally the Gates guy "Must" say this hose does not meet the "NEW" standards. But does that mean this hose will not "work" just as effectively as it has done for decades ? Really, just use some common sense here. The older trucks still running their original hoses are "WAY" past the new standards. Does that mean they will all fail horribly ? Of course not. That hose met the standards of the time just as this older style hose from Gates still meets the "needs" of our old Deuces.
So if you want to spend $11.50 per ft for this new hose (which still does not meet the SAE J30R10 standards) go right ahead. The good old Gates hose ( which only costs $2.09 per ft. and did meet the standards of it's day) has worked fine for me for years now and I'm sure will continue to work just fine for several more. I'm planning to buy 20 more feet now to stock up for the "far" future for my son. I'm sure it will work great for him too.

 

[Floridianson]

Is there any way the chemicals in stuff like Opti-lube /Diesel Clean could harm are old hoses? I add lots of that to my tank.

 

[Welder1]

OK now I better understand the issue. Before this post I really had little understanding of hose rating and J30R10 standards. This makes sense now with the changes in gasoline and the impact it has on rubber components. I will take practical experience and use that. Not having the current rating doesn't mean it won't work well with Diesel fuel. Thanks Rusty for the simple explanation. Keep on educating us on what works.


Eddie

 

[Eliteweapons]

I would just like to take a second and say thanks to EVERYONE looking into this issue. There seems to be friction between two people but their goal is the same. They are trying to keep everyone informed about the proper parts and equipment to use on our trucks and why to use them to keep us safe. I see ALOT of effort has been put in by the two I am referencing to verify that this hose is correct and wanted to acknowledge the passion they put into it for our benefit.


Thanks again for your efforts.

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

Rusty, that Gates 4219-0102 hose is Nitrile*, inside and out (see #1 scan below) and while Nitrile has an excellent compatibility rating with "straight diesel"*, and it did meet the "standards of it's day"*, times are changing, and not all of us have, or are going to have, the luxury of running "straight diesel"...

This is what I've come to understand, for example, starting in May, Minnesota has mandated a 20% biodiesel blend for on-road vehicles Apr.- Sep. (see #2 scan below). From many sources I've read, It's important to note that B20 seems to be the threshold, or line, after which materials compatibility, including nitrile, can degrade rapidly. On a personal note, from what I've read, I DON'T want any significant % of biodiesel blend sitting in my tank with a nitrile hose. Nitrile has been given a "poor" or "unsatisfactory" rating in compatibility with biodiesel (see #3 scan/"Military Study" below). The higher the biodiesel blend the more the nitrile is effected. For newer nitrile hoses, B20 might not be a problem. Could be bad for old nitrile hoses in deuce tanks (Biodiesel effects are extensively pointed out in bottom paragraph, scan #3 "Military Study" below). I know that not all of us live in an area where biodiesel/blend has been mandated, but I don't believe any of us knows what our gubment is going to mandate next, or what's coming out of any given pump we pull up to. Remember the addage; "Change is the only thing that is constant". So, the additional $10 might be a good investment, putting something in the tank that we won't have to worry about if/when a higher biodiesel blend comes our way.



When I work on my truck, I do stuff like selectively applying anti-seize to fasteners, even the ones I'm sure I'll never have to remove again in my lifetime. I use Dielectric grease, even on brand new electrical connections, and even though I live in a semi-arid climate. I've spent more money on Viton o-rings and seals when the typical stuff would've sufficed. And I'll be replacing my old nitrile hose with Viton, to compliment my new pump. Even though my truck isn't "stock" I do these things because I consider myself the steward of that 50+ year old chunk of nostalgia, and I want it to be around long after I'm gone, even if it's "the next guy" that reaps the benefits of me doing those silly "down-the-road" preventative things. And I'm sure I'm not the only one on this forum that does these things or thinks this way.

Respectfully,
Menaces Nemesis, AKA; "Some New Guy"... (Who has been the owner-operator of a Dealers-only automotive reconditioning business for over 25 years, and a manufacturer/supplier to Brownells Inc., the largest gunsmithing supplier on the planet. FWIW, going on 40 years in the work force, I don't feel so "new" anymore.)

In response to Rusty's #136 post, on behalf of myself, The Gates Corporation, The Minnesota Dept. of Agriculture, The National Biodiesel Board, U.S. Army TARDEC, and all the rest of us "Liars" out there, please enjoy a song from the late, great George Jones...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlbgI_Dq3vo