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Glad you made it. Actually kinda fun trying to brainstorm what was going wrong with your truck. What did they say "failure is not an option".
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Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
Won an M1083A1 - 1900 mile recovery trip soon! (ND to CA)
- Thread starter dxhend2
- Start date
dxhend2
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[Part 1 of 4]
Here's a recap and lessons learned from our recovery trip; hope this will be helpful to others in future recovery trips. For any troubleshooting items that carry over and aren't related to the trip itself, I'll start new threads in the FMTV forum.
Planning: Lots of good information throughout this site. As for the top-level question of having it shipped vs. self-recovery, we feel the self-recovery trip was well worth it. We learned a lot about the truck (even after spending many hours reading all the tech manuals and many threads on this site), and as a family, we really worked well as a team and grew together from the experience.
Through this forum, we were connected with Karl Kostman in Fargo, ND (about three hours from the recovery site) who graciously offered the use of his shop for a pre-journey maintenance stop, and to give us some excellent mentoring on how to do some of the maintenance on these vehicles. As for tools and equipment to bring, there are several good posts and lists here. We could have used more variety of wrenches and sockets (both SAE and metric), but we got by with what we had. Our biggest concern was the condition of the tires - last thing we wanted was a blowout on a crowded freeway. I bought four tires (two with wheels) from Feltz and had them shipped to Fargo; Karl had them waiting for us at his shop.
We flew one-way into Minneapolis (had some frequent flyer miles sitting around waiting to be used). The recovery site was actually on a farm - local guy had a deal with the planetary auction site to store vehicles on his site for pickup. We knew from the inspection report that it needed a jump start to run, so we bought four new 24H style batteries on the way to the pickup site (I had read on this site that that size battery would fit in the FMTV battery box). We had some problems rearranging the cables with a different battery post configuration and the battery box cover wouldn't fit back on. Hfreight ratchet straps worked for that.
Finally got it started (had some relay problems that bit us again later), but got it running. We still had the rental car at this point, so my son Bryan was in the right seat as co-pilot while my wife followed us in the rental car, with walkie-talkies to keep in touch (another item on our packing list - very helpful). Ran for about 45 minutes and made a quick stop for a walk-around inspection, all ok. Second hour, made a stop at a rest stop to check temperatures all around and overall checks, noticed lots of liquid coming down from the front of the engine onto the pavement - diesel fuel! Shut down, raised the cab, looked all around - could not find the source of the leak (all shut down and depressurized, but hoped to find the origin). Wherever it was coming from, it looks like it hit the fan (literally and proverbially), so there was a nice even coating of fresh diesl all over the engine compartment - no way to tell the point of origin. Our next thought was to briefly start it with the cab raised just long enough to find the source. Master power switch would not power up the dash, and starter button had no effect. Totally dead. We were about an hour away from Fargo and it was getting dark. We were in touch with Karl, and opted to find a nearby hotel a few miles away, and Karl offered to meet us at the rest stop first thing the next morning.
When Karl met us in the morning, we tried a restart with the hopes of finding the leak. After cycling the master power relay (as we did the evening before), this time it started right up. We couldn't immediately see the leak, so we shut it down and opted to call a local diesel shop that Karl had worked with; they sent a mechanic out to us. He found the leak to be in the fuel return line (a solid pipe about 3 feet long that ran from the front to the back of the engine, no shock mounting). The forward fitting appeared to have been improperly torqued down, and the tubing sheared just behind the nut (yello tube in photo below). We opted to replace it with hydraulic tubing (wire braid inside, rubber coating outside) with the same pressure ratings.
(continued...)
Here's a recap and lessons learned from our recovery trip; hope this will be helpful to others in future recovery trips. For any troubleshooting items that carry over and aren't related to the trip itself, I'll start new threads in the FMTV forum.
Planning: Lots of good information throughout this site. As for the top-level question of having it shipped vs. self-recovery, we feel the self-recovery trip was well worth it. We learned a lot about the truck (even after spending many hours reading all the tech manuals and many threads on this site), and as a family, we really worked well as a team and grew together from the experience.
Through this forum, we were connected with Karl Kostman in Fargo, ND (about three hours from the recovery site) who graciously offered the use of his shop for a pre-journey maintenance stop, and to give us some excellent mentoring on how to do some of the maintenance on these vehicles. As for tools and equipment to bring, there are several good posts and lists here. We could have used more variety of wrenches and sockets (both SAE and metric), but we got by with what we had. Our biggest concern was the condition of the tires - last thing we wanted was a blowout on a crowded freeway. I bought four tires (two with wheels) from Feltz and had them shipped to Fargo; Karl had them waiting for us at his shop.
We flew one-way into Minneapolis (had some frequent flyer miles sitting around waiting to be used). The recovery site was actually on a farm - local guy had a deal with the planetary auction site to store vehicles on his site for pickup. We knew from the inspection report that it needed a jump start to run, so we bought four new 24H style batteries on the way to the pickup site (I had read on this site that that size battery would fit in the FMTV battery box). We had some problems rearranging the cables with a different battery post configuration and the battery box cover wouldn't fit back on. Hfreight ratchet straps worked for that.
Finally got it started (had some relay problems that bit us again later), but got it running. We still had the rental car at this point, so my son Bryan was in the right seat as co-pilot while my wife followed us in the rental car, with walkie-talkies to keep in touch (another item on our packing list - very helpful). Ran for about 45 minutes and made a quick stop for a walk-around inspection, all ok. Second hour, made a stop at a rest stop to check temperatures all around and overall checks, noticed lots of liquid coming down from the front of the engine onto the pavement - diesel fuel! Shut down, raised the cab, looked all around - could not find the source of the leak (all shut down and depressurized, but hoped to find the origin). Wherever it was coming from, it looks like it hit the fan (literally and proverbially), so there was a nice even coating of fresh diesl all over the engine compartment - no way to tell the point of origin. Our next thought was to briefly start it with the cab raised just long enough to find the source. Master power switch would not power up the dash, and starter button had no effect. Totally dead. We were about an hour away from Fargo and it was getting dark. We were in touch with Karl, and opted to find a nearby hotel a few miles away, and Karl offered to meet us at the rest stop first thing the next morning.
When Karl met us in the morning, we tried a restart with the hopes of finding the leak. After cycling the master power relay (as we did the evening before), this time it started right up. We couldn't immediately see the leak, so we shut it down and opted to call a local diesel shop that Karl had worked with; they sent a mechanic out to us. He found the leak to be in the fuel return line (a solid pipe about 3 feet long that ran from the front to the back of the engine, no shock mounting). The forward fitting appeared to have been improperly torqued down, and the tubing sheared just behind the nut (yello tube in photo below). We opted to replace it with hydraulic tubing (wire braid inside, rubber coating outside) with the same pressure ratings.
(continued...)Attachments
dxhend2
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[Part 2 of 4]
We made it to Karl's shop in Fargo, and immediately got to work. Together we assessed the existing tires as roadworthy, and now had plenty of "spare" spares" for a worst-case scenario. We assembled two of the tires on wheels, and loaded them all into the back of the truck. In order to handle these "spare" spares if we needed them, we had to have a way to get them in and out of the truck (more that we could handle ourselves). I had seen a mention in one of the forum threads about modifying a pickup truck crane with an electric winch, so that's what we did. Bryan did a great job of hacking and modifying the parts, and mounted it to the bed of the truck in the back left corner - all set. We had a spare 12v car battery sitting next to it as a power source (opted not to mess with any of the vehicle's electrical system...).
(continued...)
We made it to Karl's shop in Fargo, and immediately got to work. Together we assessed the existing tires as roadworthy, and now had plenty of "spare" spares" for a worst-case scenario. We assembled two of the tires on wheels, and loaded them all into the back of the truck. In order to handle these "spare" spares if we needed them, we had to have a way to get them in and out of the truck (more that we could handle ourselves). I had seen a mention in one of the forum threads about modifying a pickup truck crane with an electric winch, so that's what we did. Bryan did a great job of hacking and modifying the parts, and mounted it to the bed of the truck in the back left corner - all set. We had a spare 12v car battery sitting next to it as a power source (opted not to mess with any of the vehicle's electrical system...).
(continued...)Attachments
dxhend2
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[Part 3 of 4]
We got on the road departing Fargo on time. At our first fuel and lunch stop in Jamestown, ND, we shut down (BIG mistake...), and couldn't restart. Same as previous symtoms - we had 12v lighting, but master power swicth would not bring up the dash, and starter switch had no effect. We got a tow off the fuel pump and into an adjacent gravel lot at the gas station, and started troubleshooting - with lots of help from Steel Soldiers (thank you all!). The last thing we tried was a suggestion to bypass the reverse polarity device (Load Battery Control Device - LBCD - located under the spare tire). We double-stacked the leads (12v input to 12v output, and 24v input to 24v output). As soon as we reconnected the batteries, we heard the neutral start relay in the Power Distribution Panel - PDP - right side of the dash - energize. That was a very good sign. The dash came up, and the truck started right away.
(continued...)
We got on the road departing Fargo on time. At our first fuel and lunch stop in Jamestown, ND, we shut down (BIG mistake...), and couldn't restart. Same as previous symtoms - we had 12v lighting, but master power swicth would not bring up the dash, and starter switch had no effect. We got a tow off the fuel pump and into an adjacent gravel lot at the gas station, and started troubleshooting - with lots of help from Steel Soldiers (thank you all!). The last thing we tried was a suggestion to bypass the reverse polarity device (Load Battery Control Device - LBCD - located under the spare tire). We double-stacked the leads (12v input to 12v output, and 24v input to 24v output). As soon as we reconnected the batteries, we heard the neutral start relay in the Power Distribution Panel - PDP - right side of the dash - energize. That was a very good sign. The dash came up, and the truck started right away.
(continued...)
dxhend2
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[Part 3a of 4]
With the sound advice from several members here to NOT shut down for anything until we were safely home, we modified our driving plans a bit. We came up with a schedule to switch drivers every hour or so, extending our driving time into the night for a few hours, and taking short stops at hotels. We had a rotation so that someone was always in the truck, and everyone got some sleep each night. We had some great driving through North Dakota, Montana, and Utah - good road conditions, and the truck was performing great. The speedometer never worked, so I downloaded a GPS speedometer app to my phone, and duct taped it to the dash. Worked pretty well.
(continued...)
With the sound advice from several members here to NOT shut down for anything until we were safely home, we modified our driving plans a bit. We came up with a schedule to switch drivers every hour or so, extending our driving time into the night for a few hours, and taking short stops at hotels. We had a rotation so that someone was always in the truck, and everyone got some sleep each night. We had some great driving through North Dakota, Montana, and Utah - good road conditions, and the truck was performing great. The speedometer never worked, so I downloaded a GPS speedometer app to my phone, and duct taped it to the dash. Worked pretty well.
(continued...)
dxhend2
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[Part 3b of 4]
Then we hit rush hour stop and go traffic on I-15 in downtown Salt Lake City. Mary Alice was driving, and we noticed the left digit on the Allison console was dark, then noticed that we were stuck in 4th gear. She was able to safely get off the freeway (again, with all of us assisting as lookouts), and got us into a parking lot...right next to a hotel. We lined it up into a section of parking spaces so that we were in a position to be towed out if necessary. So we're still running, stuck in 4th gear, parking brake holding, and an operational requirement to keep the engine running (in case it wouldn't restart) - nice dilemma!). So, we decided we had to shut down. It wouldn't restart, and we continued to troubleshoot until dark. Stayed overnight in the hotel, got back out at first light and continued our limited troubleshooting, and decided to find an Allison service center - luckily one was six miles away, and sent out a technician to us. He solved the non-starting problem - the neutral start relay had failed. It's possible that some 12v coil relays were mixed in where 24v coils are required (couldn't tell by the markings, but problem was initially solved). On to the Allison transmission. He found the output speed sensor (OSS) was shot. Good news - he was very fast and efficient at troubleshooting. Bad news - it would take 48 hours to get the part. Finding the serial number plate on the right side of the transmission helped them find the right part quickly.
(second photo is the OSS. Continued...)
Then we hit rush hour stop and go traffic on I-15 in downtown Salt Lake City. Mary Alice was driving, and we noticed the left digit on the Allison console was dark, then noticed that we were stuck in 4th gear. She was able to safely get off the freeway (again, with all of us assisting as lookouts), and got us into a parking lot...right next to a hotel. We lined it up into a section of parking spaces so that we were in a position to be towed out if necessary. So we're still running, stuck in 4th gear, parking brake holding, and an operational requirement to keep the engine running (in case it wouldn't restart) - nice dilemma!). So, we decided we had to shut down. It wouldn't restart, and we continued to troubleshoot until dark. Stayed overnight in the hotel, got back out at first light and continued our limited troubleshooting, and decided to find an Allison service center - luckily one was six miles away, and sent out a technician to us. He solved the non-starting problem - the neutral start relay had failed. It's possible that some 12v coil relays were mixed in where 24v coils are required (couldn't tell by the markings, but problem was initially solved). On to the Allison transmission. He found the output speed sensor (OSS) was shot. Good news - he was very fast and efficient at troubleshooting. Bad news - it would take 48 hours to get the part. Finding the serial number plate on the right side of the transmission helped them find the right part quickly.
(second photo is the OSS. Continued...)
dxhend2
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[Part 4 of 4. Really.]
We took a little time to do some sightseeing in Salt Lake City (hadn't tried Uber before - worked out great). Once the part was in, the service tech was back out and promptly got us up and running. We continued on through southern Utah, a short piece of Arizona, and into Nevada, where we stopped in North Las Vegas for the (hopefully) final night. The next day we made it through some sections of stop and go traffic in California (no fun), then finally back to the shop just in time to host our monthly company happy hour.
Last items that helped us out. We had a clipboard for taking temperature logs, generally every hour, using an infrared laser thermometer (just point and get a surface temperature reading very easily). We were looking for trends or anything out of the ordinary (tires, hubs, differentials, transmission) - all good throughout the trip. We'd also check tire pressures at each stop - CTIS is working fine. The other item we had on the clipboard that was VERY helpful was a route printed out from www.findfuelstops.com - we had every truck stop from Fargo, ND to Vista, CA listed out with trip miles and location; made it very easy to plan all of our stops along the way. I'd highly recommend using that web site for planning any MV road trips.
In closing, a hearty thank you to everyone here that helped us out along the way. There were many posts to this thread, and additional texts, emails and phone calls along the way that helped us out. This was a great adventure for us, and one of the most important things we got out of it was the affirmation that there are a lot of good people in this country - many we've met here on line, and many we met in person along the way. Honored to be travelling in your company...
Best Regards,
Captain Dan
We took a little time to do some sightseeing in Salt Lake City (hadn't tried Uber before - worked out great). Once the part was in, the service tech was back out and promptly got us up and running. We continued on through southern Utah, a short piece of Arizona, and into Nevada, where we stopped in North Las Vegas for the (hopefully) final night. The next day we made it through some sections of stop and go traffic in California (no fun), then finally back to the shop just in time to host our monthly company happy hour.
Last items that helped us out. We had a clipboard for taking temperature logs, generally every hour, using an infrared laser thermometer (just point and get a surface temperature reading very easily). We were looking for trends or anything out of the ordinary (tires, hubs, differentials, transmission) - all good throughout the trip. We'd also check tire pressures at each stop - CTIS is working fine. The other item we had on the clipboard that was VERY helpful was a route printed out from www.findfuelstops.com - we had every truck stop from Fargo, ND to Vista, CA listed out with trip miles and location; made it very easy to plan all of our stops along the way. I'd highly recommend using that web site for planning any MV road trips.
In closing, a hearty thank you to everyone here that helped us out along the way. There were many posts to this thread, and additional texts, emails and phone calls along the way that helped us out. This was a great adventure for us, and one of the most important things we got out of it was the affirmation that there are a lot of good people in this country - many we've met here on line, and many we met in person along the way. Honored to be travelling in your company...
Best Regards,
Captain Dan
pontiac62
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Awesome looking truck. Does it have that new truck smell. Lol. Caught up on your journey. That’s a great looking garage Karl has. Will be following your progress should you do a Expedition building write up.
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Man of few words
M1081 LVAD
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Man of few words
M1081 LVAD
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Hey folks Karl Kostman here and I just wanted to say and let everybody on the site know how lucky I was to have the opportunity to assist Dan and his family get this rather eventful journey underway, (I hope they forgive me someday) and to let our site know that its folks exactly like Dan and his family that we want to be part of our community. I was incredibly impressed with his son Brian, darned hard worker and did not hesitate to get things going. Hims wife Mary Alice, wonderful lady who again did not hesitate to get her hand dirty and was always looking for something to help with! Dan is going to be a very good resource for all of us, he is a very intelligent person who may not know everything about this truck right now but given a year he will be a wonderful resource for all of us! I am glad they made it home and I want to thank them for the opportunity to help them and the opportunity to meet some terrific people!
Karl
Karl
Valor
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Hi Dan and Family. I read about your journey from start to finish and glad you made it home okay. It was a very interesting read. If I had caught your posts a little earlier I could have convoyed with you for a ways through the high desert and cajon pass in california in my M923A2. Maybe next time. You have a real nice truck there. Anyway, glad you made it home from ND. Thanks for posting about your trip and the pics. Greg
dxhend2
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Thanks! It does have that new truck smell (or is it old truck smell?) - and we LOVE IT! Karl has an awesome shop there - was a great help to us!!!
We will be doing an expedition build thread (or two), plus others in the FMTV forum to share what we're learning about this truck.
M1081 - when I'm introducing people to our truck, I always like to explain the M1081 variant. When I tell them what LVAD means, their eyes bug out...WHAAAAT??? Couldn't find a video of an M1081 drop, but here's one of multiple HMMWV's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb-YaackavU
(We do cool stuff...).
We will be doing an expedition build thread (or two), plus others in the FMTV forum to share what we're learning about this truck.
M1081 - when I'm introducing people to our truck, I always like to explain the M1081 variant. When I tell them what LVAD means, their eyes bug out...WHAAAAT??? Couldn't find a video of an M1081 drop, but here's one of multiple HMMWV's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb-YaackavU
(We do cool stuff...).
dxhend2
Active member
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Karl, thanks again for all your support, mentoring, and friendship! Could not have made this journey without you! And, all the many others here in this forum! We met so many great people through this, both in person and virtually, and look forward to contributing back to this community as we learn more.
My original interest and attraction for a military vehicle was along the lines of restoration and helping to "tell the story" of our veterans - a key part of our national heritage that is largely unknown among the general population, particularly among our youth. After looking at the options of how to thread the needle of legalities in this state, I decided to go for the "RV" registration path (as an expedition vehicle) in a way that supports our current family work and activities while preserving and acknowledging the military heritage aspects of this great vehicle. Here's the concept of what our plans are (Open Source Maker Labs is our family business):
https://www.opensourcemakerlabs.com/page/sev
Again, thanks so much to everyone here for all your help! We look forward to working with you and contributing back the many things we'll be learning!
Best Regards,
Dan
My original interest and attraction for a military vehicle was along the lines of restoration and helping to "tell the story" of our veterans - a key part of our national heritage that is largely unknown among the general population, particularly among our youth. After looking at the options of how to thread the needle of legalities in this state, I decided to go for the "RV" registration path (as an expedition vehicle) in a way that supports our current family work and activities while preserving and acknowledging the military heritage aspects of this great vehicle. Here's the concept of what our plans are (Open Source Maker Labs is our family business):
https://www.opensourcemakerlabs.com/page/sev
Again, thanks so much to everyone here for all your help! We look forward to working with you and contributing back the many things we'll be learning!
Best Regards,
Dan
dxhend2
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Hi Greg, thanks! We might have the opportunity to connect in the future. We occasionally head over to your area for some amateur rocket launches - looking for some outings to take our truck on!
Best Regards,
Dan
Best Regards,
Dan
Valor
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I think I know where you are talking about with the amateur rocket launches. Are they in lucerne valley? I almost went to one event last year. Sounds like fun. Take care. Greg