rear wheel wobble

[1993]

driving a few days ago I had a motorcyclist pull up along side me and tell me that my rear wheel looks like it might have some loose lugs because he saw irregular spin from behind.

I pulled over and checked. lugs were tight.
When I got back to the garage and grabbed the rear left corner of the truck and pushed/pulled it side to side, I noticed a sound coming from the rear left wheel like what it would sound like if the lugs were a bit loose.
when I grabbed the top of the tire and pushed/pulled it toward/away from the truck I heard the same and felt the play.

However, when I removed the wheel I cannot seem to replicate the effect.
My first thought after checking radius rod and arm bushings was the spindle nut might be loose.
but when I grab the wheel mating surface and try to shake it or move it(even with a 2x4 for extra leverage) nothing seems to move. there is however a slight sound of what I could describe as "a short squish of grease under high pressure" . I'm thinking maybe ball joints but with my hand on them I do not feel the play.
the sound happens when I am prying up anywhere under the hub.

any easy way to figure out if its the ball joints or spindle nut before taking apart?

 

[rcamacho]

Check the TM.
There is a procedure for checking ball joint play.
If the rim is true and you are seeing rotational play its most likely hub bearing adjustment or worn bearings.


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[1993]

Check the TM.
There is a procedure for checking ball joint play.
If the rim is true and you are seeing rotational play its most likely hub bearing adjustment or worn bearings.


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By "hub bearing adjustment" are you referring to the spindle nut?

 

[rcamacho]

Yep


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[papakb]

You can eliminate the wheel itself by taking it to a tire shop and having them spin it up on a wheel balancer. that'll help you focus your efforts in the right area. Remember that when the wheel is mounted you have more leverage on the spindle. You might be able to feel the wobble with it mounted where you might not feel it with the wheel removed. Either way I'd get on top of this right away. You don't want to be passed on the road by one of your own wheels!

 

[rcamacho]

From personal experience I don’t trust any hmmwv spindle is set properly unless I set it myself.

Case in point...
My vehicle spindle had:
No loctite at all...
Insufficiently torqued to spec...
Washer was not properly engaging nut...

Recipe for wheel loss


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[1993]

You can eliminate the wheel itself by taking it to a tire shop and having them spin it up on a wheel balancer. that'll help you focus your efforts in the right area. Remember that when the wheel is mounted you have more leverage on the spindle. You might be able to feel the wobble with it mounted where you might not feel it with the wheel removed. Either way I'd get on top of this right away. You don't want to be passed on the road by one of your own wheels!

Haha! yeah that would be depressing.

I grabbed another stand and put it under the lower arm, then lowered the jack so the truck rests on both stands. with enough pressure on the one under the arm so that the spring begins to compress.

then with the 2x4 under the hub I pushed up. with my hand against the lower joint and also the hub mating surface, I can feel a slight movement.
probably less than 1/32". of course that's only up/down movement and the side to side could be worse but I have no good ideas how to check it.

But could 1/32" be enough play to make a motorcyclist see wheel wobble from behind?

I'm planning to replace the ball joint ASAP but what else should I check?

this lower ball joint is the only thing with rust apart from an exhaust mount.
I'm thinking it did not get any grease because all the other joints are greasy and nice looking.

should I upgrade to the newer heavy duty ball joint? It looks longer, will it change alignment?

 

[porkysplace]

Haha! yeah that would be depressing.

I grabbed another stand and put it under the lower arm, then lowered the jack so the truck rests on both stands. with enough pressure on the one under the arm so that the spring begins to compress.

then with the 2x4 under the hub I pushed up. with my hand against the lower joint and also the hub mating surface, I can feel a slight movement.
probably less than 1/32". of course that's only up/down movement and the side to side could be worse but I have no good ideas how to check it.

But could 1/32" be enough play to make a motorcyclist see wheel wobble from behind?

I'm planning to replace the ball joint ASAP but what else should I check?

this lower ball joint is the only thing with rust apart from an exhaust mount.
I'm thinking it did not get any grease because all the other joints are greasy and nice looking.

should I upgrade to the newer heavy duty ball joint? It looks longer, will it change alignment?

If your going to do 1 ball joint do them all or they will just continue to fail. It will just stress the next weakest one until that one fails .

 

[Action]

You can also check radius rod and control arm bushings.

 

[1993]

You can also check radius rod and control arm bushings.

those all seem nice and tight. I've pried on most connections in the past, and the alignment shop also supposedly checked "everything"... but I guess not the lower rear left ball joint. Should I ask them to recheck alignment after I install the new ball joint? I'm thinking they couldn't of gotten it precise if there was play. they offer a one month guarantee but it's now been about three. I've only drive about 50 miles since alignment.


when looking at lower ball joints(for sale) i'm finding "7/16" and "3/8" options.
How can I know which one will fit right for my truck? or will they both?

 

[Action]

those all seem nice and tight. I've pried on most connections in the past, and the alignment shop also supposedly checked "everything"... but I guess not the lower rear left ball joint. Should I ask them to recheck alignment after I install the new ball joint? I'm thinking they couldn't of gotten it precise if there was play. they offer a one month guarantee but it's now been about three. I've only drive about 50 miles since alignment.


when looking at lower ball joints(for sale) i'm finding "7/16" and "3/8" options.
How can I know which one will fit right for my truck? or will they both?

That is the size of the bolts holding it to the control arm.

 

[1993]

That is the size of the bolts holding it to the control arm.

are there any ball joints off other trucks that would fit? something I might find at NAPA or Autozone?

 

[Action]

are there any ball joints off other trucks that would fit? something I might find at NAPA or Autozone?

An H1 Hummer.

 

[1993]

An H1 Hummer.

Haha! thanks.
But I was hoping for something more likely in stock, like for a gmc or ford...
looks like i'm going to the =bay

 

[BLK HMMWV]

Hummer parts guy, Kascar.
86humv my even have some

 

[Bulldogger]

those all seem nice and tight. I've pried on most connections in the past, and the alignment shop also supposedly checked "everything"... but I guess not the lower rear left ball joint. Should I ask them to recheck alignment after I install the new ball joint? I'm thinking they couldn't of gotten it precise if there was play. they offer a one month guarantee but it's now been about three. I've only drive about 50 miles since alignment.


when looking at lower ball joints(for sale) i'm finding "7/16" and "3/8" options.
How can I know which one will fit right for my truck? or will they both?

The rear wobble that I've observed has been due to control arms and ball joints, but if you checked them maybe they're OK. The one's I observed on someone else's ride were easy to wiggle with the wheel jacked up off the ground.

Good luck nailing it down.

BDGR

 

[1993]

So I changed out the lower rear left ball joint(having thought that was the issue). and the symptom seemed to have gone away.
I tested it by pushing the rear of the truck side to side.
it no longer made the ticking(loose play) sound from the rear left.

a few days ago I was walking past the truck again and pushed it side to side just for the heck of it.
the ticking sound is there again!

I've only driven about 30 miles since the ball joint replacement.

I'm thinking that the problem was not the ball joint even though it was not great either.

I cannot find the source of the sound. everything seems tight.

here are some picks of the spindle nut. it looks to me like it has not moved from it's paint markings so it's probably fine?
Is that what it looks like from the factory or has it been replaced? the bolts on all of the spindle covers do show old wrench marks.
I don't really want to mess with the nut if I don't have to.
I tried to find play in the spindle levering it side to side with a 2x6 before opening it but did not see or hear any.
my next thought is that maybe the bolts holding the top control arm buckets loosened a bit since I adjusted shims.

 

[Action]

So I changed out the lower rear left ball joint(having thought that was the issue). and the symptom seemed to have gone away.
I tested it by pushing the rear of the truck side to side.
it no longer made the ticking(loose play) sound from the rear left.

a few days ago I was walking past the truck again and pushed it side to side just for the heck of it.
the ticking sound is there again!

I've only driven about 30 miles since the ball joint replacement.

I'm thinking that the problem was not the ball joint even though it was not great either.

I cannot find the source of the sound. everything seems tight.

here are some picks of the spindle nut. it looks to me like it has not moved from it's paint markings so it's probably fine?
Is that what it looks like from the factory or has it been replaced? the bolts on all of the spindle covers do show old wrench marks.
I don't really want to mess with the nut if I don't have to.
I tried to find play in the spindle levering it side to side with a 2x6 before opening it but did not see or hear any.
my next thought is that maybe the bolts holding the top control arm buckets loosened a bit since I adjusted shims.

View attachment 741560View attachment 741561

Have you jacked up a wheel and tried to move it around and check for noise or movement? Or just pushing the side of the HMMWV? Pushing the whole HMMWV could be a shock or anything else.

 

[Milcommoguy]

Looks like the old spindle nut and locking washer tabs. I would be surprised if anything on these Hmmwv's is original... as in lets get busy in the motor pool and change some stuff. Ooops, missed that upgrade on the spindle nuts. Might want to look into the upgraded locking hardware before a spindle lets go, making for a real mess. Nice that someone put a verification paint stripe on it.

If it is original...time to change it out soldier.

CAM

and thirty years old

 

[1993]

Have you jacked up a wheel and tried to move it around and check for noise or movement? Or just pushing the side of the HMMWV? Pushing the whole HMMWV could be a shock or anything else.

yeah I've pushed and pulled on the wheel with the truck jacked up(as I think I mentioned much earlier in this post, or another..).
It made the ticking sound when pulling/pushing on top and bottom of tire.
had my brother do it while I put my hand on different components to see if I could feel something. the only thing that seemed to produce the play was the lower ball joint so I replaced it.
haven't had my brother around since I noticed the symptoms again.
gonna refill the hub and put it back together to mess around some more.

Guess I should start looking for the upgrade spindle nuts?
seems the subject has appeared multiple times.
I thought that they would only loosen if incorrectly installed.
Since these appear to not have moved for this long I was thinking they should be fine?