MEP-002A Won't Start Unless Throttle Held Up then Overspeeds

[Davidbrookstone]

Have to hold throttle up/down to get it to start, then when its running, it seems to be overspeeding, oil pressure is maxed out. I tried adjusting the spring loaded turny thing on the governor to adjust, and nothing changed.

1. Now that I have probably messed up something else, what can I do to get the governor adjusted properly?

2. How do you properly start/run this thing with the knob?

3. With having to hold the throttle up to start, does that mean something is broke or is this just operator error?

I tried reading the manuals and nothing is making sense I can't tell if something is broke or if I'm just an idiot.

Thanks for your help in advanced!!

-Ben

 

[Chainbreaker]

First off welcome to the forum. Your in the right place...lots of members here with experience that can help you.

Did you just buy this machine and what is its history? Was it reported to be running and producing power?

Are you using the "Operating Instructions", "Starting Procedure" as outlined on the placard riveted to the right side of the Control Box?

By "Holding the throttle up/down to start are you saying you are having to manually raise the "Stop Solenoid" to get it to start. If so, you should first start looking at inspecting its linkage. Is it rubbing anywhere, especially where it goes through the hole in the sheet metal causing it to hang up? Is the linkage bent or missing parts (ball & socket).

Regarding your #2 question. The throttle knob should only be required to be twisted (vernier adjustment) to adjust engine speed to 61.5 hZ on meter and then left there and not touched, assuming someone hasn't pushed in the button and moved the throttle cable to an extreme position and left it there.

The TM's do make sense if you take your time to get familiar with both the proper manual(s) and the layout of your genset. All the manuals you will ever need are here in the forum.

After you verify that the stop solenoid is working properly and the throttle cable is set to run at 61.5 hZ then you can determine if the governor is holding engine speed steady or hunting (speed variations up & down).

 

[Davidbrookstone]

First off welcome to the forum. Your in the right place...lots of members here with experience that can help you.

Did you just buy this machine and what is its history? Was it reported to be running and producing power?

Are you using the "Operating Instructions", "Starting Procedure" as outlined on the placard riveted to the right side of the Control Box?

By "Holding the throttle up/down to start are you saying you are having to manually raise the "Stop Solenoid" to get it to start. If so, you should first start looking at inspecting its linkage. Is it rubbing anywhere, especially where it goes through the hole in the sheet metal causing it to hang up? Is the linkage bent or missing parts (ball & socket).

Regarding your #2 question. The throttle knob should only be required to be twisted (vernier adjustment) to adjust engine speed to 61.5 hZ on meter and then left there and not touched, assuming someone hasn't pushed in the button and moved the throttle cable to an extreme position and left it there.

The TM's do make sense if you take your time to get familiar with both the proper manual(s) and the layout of your genset. All the manuals you will ever need are here in the forum.

After you verify that the stop solenoid is working properly and the throttle cable is set to run at 61.5 hZ then you can determine if the governor is holding engine speed steady or hunting (speed variations up & down).

Bought unit in 2015 from a rural Missouri firehouse using as backup generator. The person that sold it to me had idea what condition it was in.

It runs just fine and produces power at the convenience outlets, when I hold the throttle down (increase throttle) to start it. I think the stop solenoid is working fine too, I hear it clunk when starting. When running, there is no hunting, just sounds like its running full bore. I even tried tying a shoe string to the lever to adjust the rpms at a lower pace. If I take the shoestring off, it goes back to full bore.
The linkage appears to be fine, and nothing hung up on the sheet metal. What does the spring loaded adjustment change? How should I set it back to "normal"?

Honestly, I didn't know how the knob operated until I just read the manual, I will try it halfway out then make fine adjustments with it.
Also, is running this unit without a load "bad" for it?

Thanks for your help so far!

 

[Ray70]

I'm confused a little, not sure what you mean by hold throttle down ( increase throttle ) moving the throttle linkage up at the pump increases throttle. When you say "Full Bore" are you getting Hz readings on the gage? You always want to run the machine at just over 1800 rpm = 61.5 Hz on the gage at no load. you never want to "idle it down" or let it warm up before going to full speed. Doing so will eventually cost you a new voltage regulator once you burn out the transistors from letting it run too slow.
So first, remove the shoestring!
The vertical threaded shaft where that spring is makes your governor Droop adjustment, or in other words, adjusts the governor's sensitivity.
If it is up too high the generator won't properly hold at 60hz as the load is increased and will bog down. if its too low the machine will hunt up and down and not have a steady RPM.
The droop adjustment is done when applying load, for now you first need to get the machine running at 61.5 Hz under no load, then leave the throttle knob there.
Running without a load isn't a problem like it is on other models. But running it too slow is a problem.

 

[Davidbrookstone]

I'm confused a little, not sure what you mean by hold throttle down ( increase throttle ) moving the throttle linkage up at the pump increases throttle. When you say "Full Bore" are you getting Hz readings on the gage? You always want to run the machine at just over 1800 rpm = 61.5 Hz on the gage at no load. you never want to "idle it down" or let it warm up before going to full speed. Doing so will eventually cost you a new voltage regulator once you burn out the transistors from letting it run too slow.
So first, remove the shoestring!
The vertical threaded shaft where that spring is makes your governor Droop adjustment, or in other words, adjusts the governor's sensitivity.
If it is up too high the generator won't properly hold at 60hz as the load is increased and will bog down. if its too low the machine will hunt up and down and not have a steady RPM.
The droop adjustment is done when applying load, for now you first need to get the machine running at 61.5 Hz under no load, then leave the throttle knob there.
Running without a load isn't a problem like it is on other models. But running it too slow is a problem.

Shoestring is removed, but it scares me because it sounds like such an overspeed I don't want the engine to explode... the oil pressure is maxed out... what is typical oil pressure supposed to be?

You are correct, I'm holding the linkage "up" to increase throttle. I'm just going to set the droop at halfway up/down then adjust later.

I'm gonna set the throttle knob halfway out, then try to start and see what happens. I'm pretty sure it won't start, but I'll let ya'll know.

 

[Davidbrookstone]

I'm confused a little, not sure what you mean by hold throttle down ( increase throttle ) moving the throttle linkage up at the pump increases throttle. When you say "Full Bore" are you getting Hz readings on the gage? You always want to run the machine at just over 1800 rpm = 61.5 Hz on the gage at no load. you never want to "idle it down" or let it warm up before going to full speed. Doing so will eventually cost you a new voltage regulator once you burn out the transistors from letting it run too slow.
So first, remove the shoestring!
The vertical threaded shaft where that spring is makes your governor Droop adjustment, or in other words, adjusts the governor's sensitivity.
If it is up too high the generator won't properly hold at 60hz as the load is increased and will bog down. if its too low the machine will hunt up and down and not have a steady RPM.
The droop adjustment is done when applying load, for now you first need to get the machine running at 61.5 Hz under no load, then leave the throttle knob there.
Running without a load isn't a problem like it is on other models. But running it too slow is a problem.

Chain/Ray: Please watch this video maybe you can see something that doesn't look right?

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=aVIxUS01YXV4c3dxc2JxeFp5T0hqUGVnU2lxdjJn

 

[Ray70]

I can't access the video, possibly a firewall issue here at work, PM sent with my address.
You will want the droop adjustment to be down near the bottom, about 1/2" up from the bottom for a starting point. 1/2 way up the thread is way way too high.

 

[Davidbrookstone]

I can't access the video, possibly a firewall issue here at work, PM sent with my address.
You will want the droop adjustment to be down near the bottom, about 1/2" up from the bottom for a starting point. 1/2 way up the thread is way way too high.

OK, thanks!! direct link to the video should be open for anyone to view: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ddeFNWYxFtfaFFQg6

 

[Ray70]

Ok, I sent the video to my phone and was able to view. So Hz gage appears pegged at 65.
What happens if you rotate the black throttle knob to the right, or squeeze in on the center button and push the knob in a bit? are you getting any RPM change from the throttle knob?
take a look at the end of the cable where it attaches to the arm with the governor spring on it, does adjusting the cable move the arm back and forth?

 

[Davidbrookstone]

Ok, I sent the video to my phone and was able to view. So Hz gage appears pegged at 65.
What happens if you rotate the black throttle knob to the right, or squeeze in on the center button and push the knob in a bit? are you getting any RPM change from the throttle knob?
take a look at the end of the cable where it attaches to the arm with the governor spring on it, does adjusting the cable move the arm back and forth?

I'm going to have to check it this weekend, and get back to you. I'm pretty sure its actually moving the linkage, but I want to double check and I'll take a video of it.

 

[Ray70]

Your oil pressure is fine, normally it will be anywhere from 25-30 on an engine with some hours to almost pegged high on a newer or recently rebuilt motor.
Only be concerned with engine RPM right now.
It's hard to see, but I think your droop adjustment is too high up on the thread, that will also affect RPM if you change droop and don't compensate with the black throttle knob.
First lower the droop adjustment to 1/2" from the bottom, then let us know where you have the throttle knob and what happens to the throttle linkage and the Hz gage when you move it in or out.
Also, have someone crank the motor and you watch the fuel solenoid and linkage arm. when they crank it the solenoid should pull up and linkage so pop up to full throttle then come about 1/2 way down when the engine starts and the governor takes control.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I reviewed the video with your engine running in "shoestring mode". Doesn't sound bad other than what Ray noted about Hz guage being pegged at 65. That means engine is running above 1800 RPM, too fast due to you not having throttle control with governor maintaining RPM due to shoestring band-aid.

1. Typical oil pressure is usually 30-40 psi after warm up. Oil pressure running at 40 PSI in video is fine. If it pegs at 50+ after warm-up then I have to ask when was oil & filter last changed and what weight oil is being used? Should be 15-40 HD diesel rated oil (Delo, Rotella, etc.)

2. Rough throttle setting ref from my -002 set to 61.5 Hz: From the back most portion of the Black throttle knob, the exposed portion of the metal shaft is 1.5" to the aluminum nut: Black Throttle Adj [Knob]<---- 1.5" exposed shaft--->[Al slip Nut]

3. Couldn't see in the video where your spring is attached to governor star adjuster screw. Where is the "J portion of spring end" positioned below the star adjuster on the worm type screw for governor linkage? For reference, on mine it about 1/2 way down between star adjuster and bottom end of screw.

Also, don't run the engine too long with the "Close to Run" engine shroud flipped up. It can overheat if run that way for very long.

Edit: To answer your earlier question about letting it run without a load. No, its not going to hurt it to run without load to troubleshoot it and get it dialed in to 61.5 Hz no load. Although, I would not run it without load for hours. After you get it running and verify it is producing proper voltage & Hz you should then load test it (a ~$30 Kill-A-Watt meter is a good verification tool plugged into unit's convivence outlets) and later plugged into house outlet to verify your genset Control Panel gauges are reading accurate. If you have something like an electric garage heater of 5,000 - 7,000 watts it works great as a load testing device. Otherwise, you can hook it to your house once verified electrical output is good and run something like an electric dryer to load test it for an hour or so. You could turn off all other breakers in your breaker panel until you load test it using that device and know that it reacts properly holding 60 Hz when placed under substantial load.