MEP 805A in Texas little bit of HELP

[cshowerton]

MEP-005A in Texas little bit of HELP

Gentlemen

Just recently got a MEP-005A and it is pretty clean. I have two issues that I need some help with... The watt transducer seems to have leaked out all of the gell that the windings are supposed to be covered in... Is the Watt transducer bad? Should I get a new one? I found one on oshkosh for 300 is this a good deal?

Second... the motor wants to fire but I cant get fuel to it... I can get fuel to the injector pump but I can not get it to pump fuel... I have not taken it off, just taken the top off and made sure the springs were moving... I am not confident in taking the pump off...

I have read many post on here about this and I think I have a good grasp on the motor issue, wouldn't mind any more tips but I definitely need help on the watt transducer... What does it do and what might have caused this to go bad? I just dont want to spend the money on a new one and then burn it up if there is another issue.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Guyfang]

Lets fix what's important first. The engine will not start.

Have you you downloaded all the TM's from the TM forum here in Steel Soldiers? If not, please do so.

the first thing to understand is that the IP, (injector pump) will not funtion until the electric governor tells it to. And the electric governor will not do so, until the MPU, (magnetic Pick Up) gives its signal to the governor. So you need to inspect, test and hopefully only adjust the MPU. Are you familiar with where the MPU is?

 

[cshowerton]

I am not familiar with the MPU.... can you tell me more or refer me to a page about it?? I will start looking now too.

Lets fix what's important first. The engine will not start.

Have you you downloaded all the TM's from the TM forum here in Steel Soldiers? If not, please do so.

the first thing to understand is that the IP, (injector pump) will not funtion until the electric governor tells it to. And the electric governor will not do so, until the MPU, (magnetic Pick Up) gives its signal to the governor. So you need to inspect, test and hopefully only adjust the MPU. Are you familiar with where the MPU is?

 

[Guyfang]

Open TM 9-6115-644-24 to PDF reader # 549. Start reading the next several pages. This isnt hard.

To see where its at, open TM 9-6115-644-10, PDF reader page # 160. Item #4

 

[cshowerton]

I am finally getting back to this.... I want to make sure that I have this right.... My gen set is a 1986 model. I can not find the magnetic pick up on it.... I can not find a drawing that shows where it is on this model either..... Let me know, I am new to this.

Thank you

 

[Guyfang]

Open TM 9-6115-644-24 to PDF reader # 549. Start reading the next several pages. This isnt hard.

To see where its at, open TM 9-6115-644-10, PDF reader page # 160. Item #4

Why dont you re-read this post. It shows you where this is at. You are probably looking at the wrong manual. Walk around to the right side. Open the front door. Its down on the flywheel cover. Has two wire that run up out of it.

I most humbly apologize. I meant to write above, TM 9-6116-644-24P, PDF reader page number 160, Item number 4. My mistake. After looking at my post, I saw why you cant find it in the parts TM. But you need to look in the book.

 

[cshowerton]

Guyfang
I appreciate all of your help... I have been reading and researching a lot.... I am still at a loss for finding this part. I am attaching some pictures in hopes this will help.... Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Guyfang]

Glad you posted the pictures. You do not have a MEP-805. You have a MEP-005A. Compleatly different animal. And somehow I got the idea it was a 805. I just helped someone with the same problem as yours. Your problem is probably no 24VDC on the solinoid on to of the IP, so hook a multimeter to on of the terminals, and the other lead to ground. Have someone start the set. Do you get VDC? If not. Test the other terminal. Do you get a reading?

 

[cshowerton]

One terminal I got 16 volts the other I got 35 Millivolts.

 

[Guyfang]

Lets get some more light on this subject.

Do you have the TM's? Can you read schematics? Have you ever seen this gen set run right?

On the two wires on the top of the IP, (hooked to the L1 fuel cut off solenoid) should be numbers. One should read P55X, (ground) and the other should read P80N, (+24 VDC). Un hook the wires. Bend them up and then measure with you meter set for ohms, from wire P55X to ground. Any metal not rusted or painted over. You should get continuity. Then set your meter to VDC. Read from wire number P80N, to ground while someone else tries to start the engine with the S2, (start switch). You should get 24 VDC.

 

[cshowerton]

I do have the TMs and I have been reading them.... just wanting more educated advice before I just start taking things apart..... I have read the schematics.... some I understand and some I dont. I have not seen it run correctly.... when I got it all the fluids had been drained.... the unit is clean except for the potting in the watt transducer has melted out. I can get it to turn over on ether but the unit is not getting flow of fuel.

I did what you said, I have continuity on the ground but I am only getting 16volts to the P80N. I am only assuming that the wires are in the correct position because there is not any writing on the IP. I tested the batteries and I am getting 24 volts there so my input is correct. I have tried to read up on this but unsure what my next step should be.

Thank you

 

[mcii]

you state you're getting 16vdc on P80N, but what are you seeing at the actual IP terminals ? 16vdc should provide enuff to actually make the flow rate from the fuel rack controlled by the actuator to actually start the set. The actual voltage that is applied to the IP varies near constantly but in a steady load will be pretty constant, the 16 should be enuff to start the set by opening the actuator far enuff to allow fuel flow. Speaking of fuel flow me, personally would never run the set on Either starting fluid, I know you're excited as well frustrated and wanting to see and or hear this thing run, but IMO using either is now proven the engine will run and not a need to do this again. Even now as we slog you thru this small hic-up, trust us when the fuel/actuator situation is solved this set will bust off in a heart beat.. I'm preaching but enuff. Did you locate the mag pick-up, this is now a priority in your finding and getting things running, find the mag p/u, pull off or however it works in in testing ability, or just go to the controller input terminal strip where the mag p/u wires actually 'land' put the crank switch to off set up your voltage monitoring set up then turn the crank switch to manual crank , pushing it UP will strat the engine to turn over but should never actually allow the set to start, the circuit is made for just this purpose, you will be seeing AC voltage, something from my guess 2-as much as possibly 6 volts ac produced by the flywheel ring gear teeth turning past the mpu tip. this output is critical go or no go , you have to have this signal applied to the controller, the CONTROLLER takes a compilation of input signals' and then produces the varying DC voltage that is sent to the IP terminals to control fuel flow to the engine for both starting and speed control at normally 1800 [60hz] rpm. my point you can fake out other input signals, but a must have is the MPU signal and 24vdc and the resulting output DC voltage going to the IP actuator..
I can't tell from your last part of your efforts if you are measuring this 16vdc with the wires actually hooked to the 2 terminals on the IP.
At this juncture I would encourage you to not fret or even concern yourself on the leaky WATTS Transducer, this will not effect your starting or running ability..
Let us know.. best: mac/mc

 

[mcii]

Well crap, I fell into the same trap Guyfang did, thinking 805 and not 005.. disregard every single thing I said except running the engine on EITHER, that still holds.. I am so sorry to try and take us all down the 805 rabbit trail, my sincere apology.. mac/mc

 

[cshowerton]

Yeah.... I just did the ether thing once to see what it would do.... just to gauge where the unit stood. Now that you see the 005... what are your suggestions? The 16 VDC was measured with the wires connected to the IP terminals. I have not found a wiring diagram to understand if the voltage wire is supposed to be on the inside or outside terminal or if it even matters. I would assume that the 16VDC would be enough to make it work as well but nothing through the injector lines as I did pull one to see if I would get any fuel out..... I am glad to know that the WATTS transducer is not an issue now.... was not sure if that was throwing something off. I did see the speed sensor might have something to do with it from reading manuals but since I am getting voltage then that seems to be workin right?

I see you are in Texas... What part?

 

[Guyfang]

you state you're getting 16vdc on P80N, but what are you seeing at the actual IP terminals ? 16vdc should provide enuff to actually make the flow rate from the fuel rack controlled by the actuator to actually start the set. The actual voltage that is applied to the IP varies near constantly but in a steady load will be pretty constant, the 16 should be enuff (on the old sets, 16 volts is not enough to get it to work) to start the set by opening the actuator far enuff to allow fuel flow. Speaking of fuel flow me, personally would never run the set on Either starting fluid, I know you're excited as well frustrated and wanting to see and or hear this thing run, but IMO using either is now proven the engine will run and not a need to do this again. Even now as we slog you thru this small hic-up, trust us when the fuel/actuator situation is solved this set will bust off in a heart beat.. I'm preaching but enuff. Did you locate the mag pick-up, (Mac, this is a MEP-005A, and it has no MPU) this is now a priority in your finding and getting things running, find the mag p/u, pull off or however it works in in testing ability, or just go to the controller input terminal strip where the mag p/u wires actually 'land' put the crank switch to off set up your voltage monitoring set up then turn the crank switch to manual crank , pushing it UP will strat the engine to turn over but should never actually allow the set to start, the circuit is made for just this purpose, you will be seeing AC voltage, something from my guess 2-as much as possibly 6 volts ac produced by the flywheel ring gear teeth turning past the mpu tip. this output is critical go or no go , you have to have this signal applied to the controller, the CONTROLLER takes a compilation of input signals' and then produces the varying DC voltage that is sent to the IP terminals to control fuel flow to the engine for both starting and speed control at normally 1800 [60hz] rpm. my point you can fake out other input signals, but a must have is the MPU signal and 24vdc and the resulting output DC voltage going to the IP actuator..
I can't tell from your last part of your efforts if you are measuring this 16vdc with the wires actually hooked to the 2 terminals on the IP.
At this juncture I would encourage you to not fret or even concern yourself on the leaky WATTS Transducer, this will not effect your starting or running ability..
Let us know.. best: mac/mc

.

 

[Guyfang]

Yeah.... I just did the ether thing once to see what it would do.... just to gauge where the unit stood. Now that you see the 005... what are your suggestions? The 16 VDC was measured with the wires connected to the IP terminals. I have not found a wiring diagram to understand if the voltage wire is supposed to be on the inside or outside terminal or if it even matters. I would assume that the 16VDC would be enough to make it work as well but nothing through the injector lines as I did pull one to see if I would get any fuel out..... I am glad to know that the WATTS transducer is not an issue now.... was not sure if that was throwing something off. I did see the speed sensor might have something to do with it from reading manuals but since I am getting voltage then that seems to be workin right? Right!

I see you are in Texas... What part?

Lets slow down now. 16 volts on the old sets will not get the L1, (fuel cut off solenoid) to open. To test the L1, what you need to do now is take wire number P80N off the L1, and attach P55X back on the L1. Don't worry about what wire goes where, it doesn't matter. Then take a piece of wire and go from the Positive terminal of the starter to the terminal on L1 that has no wire. Hear it click? It should click, but that dosn't mean it works. But no click is bad. Then have a friend go to the S2 switch and try and start the set, while you hold the wires on the L1 and starter. The set should start up. You may have to crank it a while, but it should start up. As soon as it does, take the wire away. This will prove your L1 is good, and give you a warm and fuzzy about your set starting. Then we can find out what is wrong.

 

[cshowerton]

Lets slow down now. 16 volts on the old sets will not get the L1, (fuel cut off solenoid) to open. To test the L1, what you need to do now is take wire number P80N off the L1, and attach P55X back on the L1. Don't worry about what wire goes where, it doesn't matter. Then take a piece of wire and go from the Positive terminal of the starter to the terminal on L1 that has no wire. Hear it click? It should click, but that dosn't mean it works. But no click is bad. Then have a friend go to the S2 switch and try and start the set, while you hold the wires on the L1 and starter. The set should start up. You may have to crank it a while, but it should start up. As soon as it does, take the wire away. This will prove your L1 is good, and give you a warm and fuzzy about your set starting. Then we can find out what is wrong.

I adjusted the wiring as stated... I did hear a click... no start though. I got about 4 cranks through.... My next thought with that wire jumped is to open one of the fuel lines and see if I am getting anything through... If so then I know it might be injectors... if not then the pump is clogged?

 

[Guyfang]

I adjusted the wiring as stated... I did hear a click... no start though. I got about 4 cranks through.... My next thought with that wire jumped is to open one of the fuel lines and see if I am getting anything through... If so then I know it might be injectors... if not then the pump is clogged?

Not so fast. Just because it clicks, doesn't mean its good. We still need to see if it bad first. Place the S2 in the run position. Then place the S7, ( Battle short switch) in the up position. Do you hear fuel pumps running? There are two electric fuel pumps, and you can up plug one at a time, to see if they are running. If they run, then let them run 5 min. then go around to the primary fuel filter, and loosen the small brass plug on top. Get fuel coming out? If so, close the plug. Then open the petcock on the water separator, and drain a glass jar full of fuel. Whats it look like? Close the petcock. Then go to the secondary fuel filter and loosen the brass plug. Get fuel? If so, close the plug. Then go to the IP, and loosen the line going into the L1. Get fuel? If so, Then try the jumper wire to the L1 and try and start it. Let make sure we have fuel to the IP first.

 

[cshowerton]

Yes the two fuel pumps are pumping.... I am getting fuel all the way to the IP.... I even opened the little inspection cover on the side of the IP and there was good new fuel inside there. I am assuming that the IP is just gummed up from sitting for X number of years and needs a rebuild?

Thank you

 

[Guyfang]

Not so fast. Rebuild is not in the cards yet.

Now, have you removed the L1 solenoid from the IP yet? If not, then do so.

Then, reattach the fuel inlet line to the L1, while you hold id off to the side of the IP.

Then, reattach the to wires, doesn't matter where you hook them up, as long as you have hooked them up.

Then get your trusty helper, (who needs a beer to reassure him or her of your eternal gratitude) to hold the S2 start switch up in the start position.

He, or she needs to hold it at least 20-30 seconds. Do you get fuel out of the L1? It should come through the line, through the L1 and spill out onto the towels you piled up before hand to soak up fuel. If it comes out, good. if not, then you need to look at the check valve that is screwed into the fittings that go into the L1, Often, they get gummed up, and let no fuel into the L1. So, try this, and lets see what you get.