Starting problems...again

[Braunchitis]

I have a 1986 M1009 with 84,000 miles. I'm having problems starting it lately. I'm getting pretty frustrated because this is problem number EIGHT in the 5 months/4,000 miles I've had this truck.

The glow plug light comes on and goes off normally when I turn the key. When I crank it, clouds of white smoke come out of the exhaust. It can sometimes take 3-4 minutes of cranking total before it will start (with short breaks to allow the starter to cool off a bit). Eventually, it will start (with a big cloud of black smoke) and it will start fine throughout the rest of the day, as long as you don't let it sit too long. Today, though, it's not starting at all.

I thought at first this was a fuel problem, but the white smoke lends me to believe it is getting fuel. The lift pump was replaced about a month ago. Would this possibly be an electrical problem? Like maybe the glow plugs aren't warming up the cylinders? I was told when I bought it that the glow plugs had just been replaced. If the glow plugs were working, would they be warm to the touch? I tried this, they're not. Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[dm22630]

I had a very similar problem with 2 of my Ford F-Series diesel trucks. Both times it was that the water separator was full....upon draining it, the problem ceased.

I don't know if your truck has a water separator, but draining it on my trucks fixed that same problem.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

you have an issue with your glow plugs, I'm betting that several of them are burnt out. The correct replacement part is Wellman 070.

It could also be that the glow plug relay has bad contacts. The way to test this is to get your multi-meter and check for voltage on the bottom large lug of the relay (has the organge wires coming off of it.) If you have no voltage then you have a bum relay, or if you have 24v that doesnt drop down to 16v in a few seconds you have burnt out glow plugs.

 

[acetomatoco]

jump the two large terminals on the gp relay for 15 seconds and immediately crank her .. if the gps are any good she should fire right up.

 

[appalacious]

jump the two large terminals on the gp relay for 15 seconds and immediately crank her .. if the gps are any good she should fire right up.

15 seconds? That seems long (but I know nothing...) Whats too long for a converted-to-12V 1009 with ac60 plugs?
J

 

[Baer]

Found this old thread when looking for starting problems similar to mine. When I first posted about my starter problems the GPs were suggested as the possible culprit. But since my problem started all at once and since I could not make sense of the diagnostics I thought I would start with the GP relay. When I got the old one off sure enough it raddled when shook. Luckily, found a new one on Ebay and ordered it up with M1008 GPs. When I replaced the relay it still would not start. So I replaced 7 out of 8 GPs (I was running out of light and that last one under Back Battery was hard to get to). It started right up but seemed to be missing on one cylinder (replacing that last GP just moved to the top of my To-Do list). When I went to shut down I noticed that the Charge/Discharge Meter was jumping from Batt yellow to Gen green and back at one second intervals. I am open to suggestions, could I have short, a bad circuit board, a gremlin, poltergeist or ... ? I left the Motor Pool in 1970, 17 years before this vehicle was built and back then I was the CLERK not a mechanic. So any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[doghead]

In stock configuration, with one bad gp, the rest of them will be over supplied(over voltage) and can burn out just like that. This is why many of us recommend resupplying the GP relay with 12v and eliminating the resistor bank/24v supply for civilian use.

If you used an incompatible relay, you could have burned out your new gps also. There needs to be no continuity between the small terminals and the mounting point of the relay.

Your gp controller card could be bad, causing the gps to stay on all the time.

All you need to know to diagnose the system is well documented in the -20TM, in the troubleshooting section.

If you choose to resupply the GP relay with 12v, that has been posted many times as well. We need a simple sticky for this still.

What GPs did you install?

 

[Baer]

In stock configuration, with one bad gp, the rest of them will be over supplied(over voltage) and can burn out just like that. This is why many of us recommend resupplying the GP relay with 12v and eliminating the resistor bank/24v supply for civilian use.

If you used an incompatible relay, you could have burned out your new gps also. There needs to be no continuity between the small terminals and the mounting point of the relay.

Your gp controller card could be bad, causing the gps to stay on all the time.

All you need to know to diagnose the system is well documented in the -20TM, in the troubleshooting section.

If you choose to resupply the GP relay with 12v, that has been posted many times as well. We need a simple sticky for this still.

What GPs did you install?

Both GPs and GP relay are Mil Spec.

 

[cpf240]

The GP's might have been in an afterglow cycle, causing the voltmeter needle to jump around.

 

[Baer]

The GP's might have been in an afterglow cycle, causing the voltmeter needle to jump around.

IT'S ALIVE! Well it was. Yesterday I replaced the last GP and she fired right up running just fine. Took her out for a spin and even took her out into a field in 4H (she would not go into 4L but that's another problem). This mornin I got back in her ... turned the key... Wait light came on (OK it's 35 degrees here in California)... but the Wait light never went off!!!! Now what?

 

[M1008driver]

There are two things recommended that can save many problems. One is the doghead starter relay mod and the other is the gp resistor bypass. Both are so easy most people can do them and prevent mechanical problems later. Even the master CUCV guy, doghead does them. Use the parts recommended and you will have no problems. Of course many other things can break down too so keep your tools handy or behind the seat.

 

[Barrman]

As pointed out above. Throwing parts at it is not the way to fix the problem. "Mil spec" can mean a lot depending on who wrote it. What exact part number glow plugs did you put in? Search for any of the many threads dealing with glow plug resistor bypass procedures. Do that and I would suggest a set of Delco 60G glow plugs. Then see what you have as far as the wait light and starting. It seems from reading that you might then be looking at a proper new glow plug relay. Do the bypass and put in 8 known good glow plugs and see what you have.

 

[Baer]

As pointed out above. Throwing parts at it is not the way to fix the problem. "Mil spec" can mean a lot depending on who wrote it. What exact part number glow plugs did you put in? Search for any of the many threads dealing with glow plug resistor bypass procedures. Do that and I would suggest a set of Delco 60G glow plugs. Then see what you have as far as the wait light and starting. It seems from reading that you might then be looking at a proper new glow plug relay. Do the bypass and put in 8 known good glow plugs and see what you have.

I was the one using the term "mil spec" both GPs and GP relay were advertized online as "military surplus" (and you know they can't lie on the internet, lol). The relay was identical to the one that was in there except it didn't rattle. Even though the GPs looked and fit the same I was a little concerned when they came in a box marked Diesel Rx but again they were the same as those that came out (except they weren't burnt). The GPs I had picked up from the auto parts store would have required me to change the wiring because the leads were much larger. So now I'll look for Delco 60G glow plugs and directions on how to do a resistor bypass procedure (sounds medical). Thanks.

 

[Barrman]

Get 8 female crimp connectors with the new glow plugs. The terminals are different.

When you pull the new ones you just put in, look for markings just below the threads. There will be a maker and a number on there somewhere.

 

[Baer]

Get 8 female crimp connectors with the new glow plugs. The terminals are different.

When you pull the new ones you just put in, look for markings just below the threads. There will be a maker and a number on there somewhere.

Box part #DRX00070

 

[Hasdrubal]

Diesel Rx..sounds like you have a set of Wellmans. Everyone I talked to, had nothing but problems with them. Poor longevity and a tendency to swell up when they fail. Try the AC60G's next time.

 

[Baer]

Diesel Rx..sounds like you have a set of Wellmans. Everyone I talked to, had nothing but problems with them. Poor longevity and a tendency to swell up when they fail. Try the AC60G's next time.

Just happen to still have a set of those my daughter got me for Christmas. Now all I have to do is hunt down the leads for them and find the time to do it.