Runaway starter

[House56]

Hello everyone I have never posted a question on here before but after reading through the previous posts I couldn’t find one that relates to my problem. I recently tried starting my M1009 and the starter relay stuck causing a big meltdown. After tracing down all the damaged wires and replacing them I then proceeded to do the dog head mod. After getting it finished I tried starting the truck and once again the starter continued to crank until I unhooked the battery cables. Luckily it didn’t fry everything this time. I am at a total loss here on what to do next thank you in advance for any advice you guys may have on fixing this problem.

 

[Barrman]

If the starter engages as soon as you hook up the batteries then you are left with most likely two things. The small wire on the solenoid is touching the big wire also on the solenoid. Or since it worked fine before but is now stuck on. Your solenoid Could be fused internally. This happened to one of mine about 9 years ago.

I would suggest looking at the wiring to the solenoid to make sure they aren’t touching. looking up in the area of the lift pump should let you see this. A mirror would also help. If the wiring looks good then pull the starter off the truck.

Testing the solenoid/ starter can be done several ways on the ground. A volt ohm meter can be used set to Ohm’s. Put a lead on the small stud marked S that the purple wire was attached to. The other lead just needs to touch bare metal on the starter. If there is no resistance then the solenoid is shorted and needs to be replaced.

Taking jumper cables from a charged battery with the negative on the starter case and the positive on the big stud the red wire from the Buss block on the firewall went to should do nothing if all is well. If the starter turns on the again, the solenoid is shorted and should be replaced.

 

[m1010plowboy]

Hey, you're new here! Did someone pour you a beverage and show you where the fridge is? Welcome aboard, the guys with the food trays will show up soon.

Troubleshooting after all that work would cause a fella to drink so let's hope you're almost there. I pulled starters and replaced them when I had the 1010 and that wasn't the problem. It was a selenoid 3 feet away from the starter. I even managed to pinch a wire and let the next guy blow up a battery so I'm not offering mechanical advice. I do know it's time to pour a beverage so I'll join ya. Keep at it, we'll get to hear that thing crackle yet!

 

[House56]

If the starter engages as soon as you hook up the batteries then you are left with most likely two things. The small wire on the solenoid is touching the big wire also on the solenoid. Or since it worked fine before but is now stuck on. Your solenoid Could be fused internally. This happened to one of mine about 9 years ago.

I would suggest looking at the wiring to the solenoid to make sure they aren’t touching. looking up in the area of the lift pump should let you see this. A mirror would also help. If the wiring looks good then pull the starter off the truck.

Testing the solenoid/ starter can be done several ways on the ground. A volt ohm meter can be used set to Ohm’s. Put a lead on the small stud marked S that the purple wire was attached to. The other lead just needs to touch bare metal on the starter. If there is no resistance then the solenoid is shorted and needs to be replaced.

Taking jumper cables from a charged battery with the negative on the starter case and the positive on the big stud the red wire from the Buss block on the firewall went to should do nothing if all is well. If the starter turns on the again, the solenoid is shorted and should be replaced.

Can this be intermittent? I took the power lead off the starter and the buss bar on the firewall and then attached a jumper cable to the starter and then to the buss bar. That went ok no sparks, no melting. I then tried starting it again and once again the starter ran away on me so I yanked the cable off the buss bar and it stopped. Then with the key off and not even in the ignition I touched the cable back to the buss bar and it started sparking and trying to crank again. Would this be a dead give away that the solenoid on the starter is fused together like you had mentioned before?

 

[House56]

Can this be intermittent? I took the power lead off the starter and the buss bar on the firewall and then attached a jumper cable to the starter and then to the buss bar. That went ok no sparks, no melting. I then tried starting it again and once again the starter ran away on me so I yanked the cable off the buss bar and it stopped. Then with the key off and not even in the ignition I touched the cable back to the buss bar and it started sparking and trying to crank again. Would this be a dead give away that the solenoid on the starter is fused together like you had mentioned before?

After rereading your reply I think the solenoid on the starter is my problem. Can just that be replaced? If so would you happen to know the part number for it Or where I could find it?

 

[Barrman]

Have you found the Technical Manual section of this website yet? If not, scrolll to the top of the page and look to the right. There is a link called TM. Open it. Then find the CUCV part. Open it. Then open TM’s for the CUCV. The manual ending in -20 has a wonderful 70 some odd page troubleshooting section. It will walk you through exactly what to test, how and in what order.

If you follow the steps and again get to the starter solenoid as the fault. You get to go back to the TM section and open the manual that ends in -20p. That manual is an exploded view of the entire truck. What makes it super cool, is the part number listed in the -20p is the Delco number. Google it and you will find them for sale everywhere.

 

[v12venator]

There could also be an issue with the ignition switch behind your dash on the steering column. It is rod operated from your key cylinder and if the switch doesn't return back from ignition start all the way back, you will need to replace the switch so that it has a good return spring in it and you do not run away again. If that is not the problem, then next I would go back through your wiring and check to make sure you do not have any melties hanging around behind the dash causing this issue. You said you did the dog head relay mod, did you use the exact same relay that he listed or did you use what you could find?

 

[House56]

thanks barrman for the tip on the TM's I will definitely be checking those out tonight. v12venator... I did the dog head relay mod exactly to what was explained in the post the part number on the relay I used was 7018601. now onto the ignition switch being possibly bad if I turn the key over to start the truck and the truck continues to crank even with me turning the key completely off it will not make the ignition switch disengage

 

[v12venator]

To me, that sounds like either bad wiring in the harness or a sticking ignition switch. The easiest thing to do would be to disconnect your back plug on the ignition switch since there are two and then turn the key over to on to see if the starter takes off again. If so, then I would investigate the solenoid on the starter. I'll see if I can't find a part number for you to run with if the ignition switch tests out good.

 

[House56]

To me, that sounds like either bad wiring in the harness or a sticking ignition switch. The easiest thing to do would be to disconnect your back plug on the ignition switch since there are two and then turn the key over to on to see if the starter takes off again. If so, then I would investigate the solenoid on the starter. I'll see if I can't find a part number for you to run with if the ignition switch tests out good.

Okay thanks for the help man!

 

[House56]

There could also be an issue with the ignition switch behind your dash on the steering column. It is rod operated from your key cylinder and if the switch doesn't return back from ignition start all the way back, you will need to replace the switch so that it has a good return spring in it and you do not run away again. If that is not the problem, then next I would go back through your wiring and check to make sure you do not have any melties hanging around behind the dash causing this issue. You said you did the dog head relay mod, did you use the exact same relay that he listed or did you use what you could find?

Okay so today after work I came home and did some more trouble shooting. First I took out my meter and set it to continuity and put one lead to the big lug on the starter solenoid and the other lead to the frame and it rang out showing there was continuity between the two and I’m guessing there shouldn’t be. Wouldn’t this be like a dead short causing a lot of heat and a melt down?? After that I took the smaller wire off of the “S” terminal and checked voltage on it with the key off. It was 0, then I had a buddy get in the truck and turn the key over to start. Boom there was 24 volts, then they let the key return back and it went to 0 volts. Which seems correct to me. Wouldn’t that tell me that the dog head relay mod and the ignition switch are functioning correctly? If so this means I need a new starter right?

 

[v12venator]

No, the starter solenoid grounds through the body of the starter through the engine block and back to the batteries. So it sounds like all of the relays and solenoids are getting power like they should be, so I've got another question for you; did you hear any clicking at the starter solenoid when your buddy was turning the key back and forth between start and on?

If not, then I would rip the starter off the truck and start poking into the solenoid on the starter to see if you've got a partially fused passthrough that might be able to be fixed quickly with some grinding/coarse sanding. After each time you scrub on it, check it with 24v power from your battery setup on the truck with the positive wire on the small lug on the solenoid and the negative on the case to complete the circuit for testing. If you don't hear clicking when you connect and disconnect the wire from the starter body, you'll know your link inside the solenoid is sticking or not moving and more fixing is needed inside the solenoid

If that is not the case and you do hear clicking when you test with 24v power, then the problem lies inside the starter body, then you will probably want to look into starter rebuild links here on the site under the CUCV Helpful Threads sticky IIRC that can reman your starter for you for a decent price, since sourcing a new 24v starter might be quite the pain in the rear end and very expensive if you can't get it through local auto parts stores.

 

[Barrman]

I think the above post is correct. You have narrowed it down to the starter motor/solenoid. Good job.

 

[House56]

I think the above post is correct. You have narrowed it down to the starter motor/solenoid. Good job.

Thanks for the help guys I’ve got a new one ordered through a shop here in my town. It’s supposed to be here tomorrow so I’ll get it thrown on and let you all know if it fixes my problem!

 

[Barrman]

Just make sure the 3rd started mount and bracket are there and tight. Otherwise very bad things will happen.

 

[House56]

Just make sure the 3rd started mount and bracket are there and tight. Otherwise very bad things will happen.

okay guys im at a total loss here so any suggestions or help are greatly appreciated.

so my starter relay stuck causing a huge meltdown in my m1009. I replaced all fried fuse links, installed a new 24V starter, and I did the doghead relay mod. put a full charge on my batteries turned the key over, let my glow plugs cycle, then attempted to start it and unfortunately the starter continued to crank once again until I turned the key off. I tried it a total of three times and had the same result. starter continued to crank until I turned the key in the off position. thank you in advance to anyone that can help me solve this problem im having

 

[v12venator]

Is your ignition cylinder making an audible click when you turn the key between spots on the column or is it kind of soft between off, on and ign?

 

[sneekyeye]

Ok, test your ignition switch. This is probably not the best way, but I don't know the best way either. I would disconnect where the red circles are, trying to keep the starter from taking off again. Put your meter at either the yellow wire off of the switch, or the ppl/wht wire at the starter relay. Turn the key to start and back to run. You should get 12v at either of those places only when in the start position. If you go back to run and it still has 12v, they I'd say you need an ignition switch.

Make sure to keep anything you disconnect from touching metal, you could probably short something out and cause more problems.

Its entirely possible you got a bad starter though.

 

[House56]

Is your ignition cylinder making an audible click when you turn the key between spots on the column or is it kind of soft between off, on and ign?

It seems to be very crisp, however I do not know what a bad one feels like. I’m wondering if the spacing on the fly wheel to the ring gear in the starter isn’t correct causing the starter to not disengage but I’m not sure if that’s even a possibility. When I try starting it and it continues to crank it doesn’t sound crisp or easy at all. It’s a shreel noise that makes you grit your teeth and pray nothing is about to snap in half. Another thing I’m wondering is if the dog head mod is bad and the relay I purchased is faulty will it cause run on? However I’m not too convinced this could be a problem because i had a buddy crank the ignition without the small wire attached to the starter and it showed voltage there while cranking and none there when my buddy let the key go back to its resting position. This one really has me stumped I’m not sure what else to check or replace to get this truck back on the road

 

[v12venator]

At this point, I don't think shooting the parts cannon at it is the right thing to do without a bit more diagnostic work. Can you check the starter itself with a multimeter, placing the red probe on the big terminal that leads to the bus bars on the firewall and the neg probe on the case of the starter or the transmission? With the ignition cylinder in the on and off positions would help us identify whether or not your relay mod might have an issue. If it's getting 24v to that terminal with the key in on and not start, then you would want to check the relay you purchased and installed in the dash. If it does not have power with the key in the on position, buddy crank it a couple times over so you can establish power in start, then have buddy turn back to on, then back to off. You'll want to check to see if you still have power once buddy turns back to run for a second before he hits off. If you do have power there in run after start, then you will want to check your relay mod.

EDIT: The small terminal on the starter solenoid as well. That will help establish if the electro-magicals in the solenoid are turning off when they are commanded to by turning the key back. If there is still power there once you turn the key back to run, you'll probably want to look into getting a replacement solenoid or starter back from where you got this one.