Plumbing a water cooled turbo on a 3116?

[Ohiobenz]

Has anyone installed a water cooled turbo on a 3116?
Where did you tie into the system?
Garrett recommends the heater hoses....
Pics please!

 

[simp5782]

Your engine is never going to be worked that hard to even consider needing it. Those are for extreme temps with lots of load on the engine.

You also would need a larger radiator since the LMTV fan cycles on a good bit just going down the road. Using coolant to run thru a turbo puts more heat and work on the engine and fan.

Its supposed to help on cool down time but running the engine till egts get down to idle temp is the practical answer for that. Or add a turbo timer if you don't want to wait

 

[Ohiobenz]

I'm putting in a 350HP marine turbo, governor and injectors.
The new turbo CHRA comes with water cooling. Not running anything in there I think would make it prone to failure?
I'm also no longer running the original air clutch fan, having switched to a commercial over-the-road electric truck fan.

I don't think I have a choice of not running coolant, just how to plumb it.

 

[simp5782]

I'm putting in a 350HP marine turbo, governor and injectors.
The new turbo CHRA comes with water cooling. Not running anything in there I think would make it prone to failure?
I'm also no longer running the original air clutch fan, having switched to a commercial over-the-road electric truck fan.

I don't think I have a choice of not running coolant, just how to plumb it.

You are not going to be able to keep the truck cool. It's going to struggle. Keeping the oil and transmission oil cool not to mention the engine the cooling system will be overworked on a hot day and that electric fan may keep up but the radiator Its not going to have the capacity to keep up

Deleting the heat exchanger for air charged transmission cooler would be a wise investment

You will go lower to upper. Flow coming from the water pump goes down. You would dump back into the top from the turbo flow.

Adding an auxiliary radiator for the turbo itself before the system is a option.

The water from my engine output went thru its own radiator before going into the aftercooler. Thus helping the aftercooler with hotter air

 

[Ohiobenz]

You are not going to be able to keep the truck cool. It's going to struggle. Keeping the oil and transmission oil cool not to mention the engine the cooling system will be overworked on a hot day and that electric fan may keep up but the radiator Its not going to have the capacity to keep up

Deleting the heat exchanger for air charged transmission cooler would be a wise investment

You will go lower to upper. Flow coming from the water pump goes down. You would dump back into the top from the turbo flow.

Adding an auxiliary radiator for the turbo itself before the system is a option.

The water from my engine output went thru its own radiator before going into the aftercooler. Thus helping the aftercooler with hotter air

Does the 1079 have a transmission cooler? I thought that was strictly a 5T thing.

 

[simp5782]

Does the 1079 have a transmission cooler? I thought that was strictly a 5T thing.

Has a heat exchanger. They all do the 5 tons used an air to air to supplement it with heavy engine load

There are a few small mrap units available that keep the transmission cool on its own @Swamp Donkey could tell you which one he used on his 939 series truck

 

[Ronmar]

Yep, all the trucks have the liquid trans cooler and the 5t and tractor variants have an additional air trans cooler in the loop.

I would be careful using the heater lines as the flow thru the heater loop can be shutoff which would start the non flowing coolant in the turbo to boiling in short order. It could also impact heater performance...

On the backside of the thermostat housing is a port that is run to the expansion tank. You could probably tap off of that as it is on the pressure/outlet side of the water pump. You could return the water from the turbo to a T fitting added to the heater return line at the pump inlet side(Just under the alternator). This would give you turbo flow whenever the engine/pump is turning...

 

[Ronmar]

Thinking about my last post a little more, you could probably divert that line from the thermostat housing to the expansion tank completely and send it all to the turbo. There really is no need to pump fluid to the expansion tank, it will still get coolant exchange Thru expansion/contraction every time it heats/cools.

Another thing to consider about the plumbing is cooling after shutdown. The configuration I described above would still receive coolant flow thru thermo-siphon after the engine is shut off. Since it is likely the core and exhaust housing will still be above 200F at shutdown this is something that needs to be considered.

I built a custom turbo manifold for a water cooled T3 on a Toyota I used to own. I missed this detail with the supply and return water lines both coming from below the turbo. When I shutdown it would boil the coolant In the turbo housing for several minutes... had to re-config the top coolant port to run across to the upper rad hose, which allowed coolant to continue to flow thru Thermo-siphon after shutdown resulting in no more boiling...

 

[coachgeo]

how was the turbo cooler plumbed on the boats? what is a separate cooler from the engine orr? Knowing this could help your plumbing decisions. My guess is for the 350hp output one needs tremendous cooling...... which was likely much easier to do in a boat surrounded by water???

 

[Ronmar]

how was the turbo cooler plumbed on the boats? what is a separate cooler from the engine orr? Knowing this could help your plumbing decisions. My guess is for the 350hp output one needs tremendous cooling...... which was likely much easier to do in a boat surrounded by water???

I have seen different ways done on marine plants, but it is easier having unlimited cooling capacity right thru the hull. Most of the water cooled turbos are simply plumbed in parallel with the charge air cooler(liquid to air intercooler). About the biggest difference is many use a wet exhaust where a nozzle ring is added into the exhaust pipe immediately after the turbo and raw water is sprayed directly into the exhaust to help keep the exhaust plumbing cooler and reduce engine compartment temps...

 

[Ohiobenz]

You are not going to be able to keep the truck cool. It's going to struggle. Keeping the oil and transmission oil cool not to mention the engine the cooling system will be overworked on a hot day and that electric fan may keep up but the radiator Its not going to have the capacity to keep up

Deleting the heat exchanger for air charged transmission cooler would be a wise investment

You will go lower to upper. Flow coming from the water pump goes down. You would dump back into the top from the turbo flow.

Adding an auxiliary radiator for the turbo itself before the system is a option.

The water from my engine output went thru its own radiator before going into the aftercooler. Thus helping the aftercooler with hotter air

From the Garrett turbo page:

While the engine is running and oil is flowing through the turbo’s bearing system, most of the transferred heat will be absorbed by the oil, preventing damage to the bearings and oil seals.

 

[Ohiobenz]

Thinking about my last post a little more, you could probably divert that line from the thermostat housing to the expansion tank completely and send it all to the turbo. There really is no need to pump fluid to the expansion tank, it will still get coolant exchange Thru expansion/contraction every time it heats/cools.

Another thing to consider about the plumbing is cooling after shutdown. The configuration I described above would still receive coolant flow thru thermo-siphon after the engine is shut off. Since it is likely the core and exhaust housing will still be above 200F at shutdown this is something that needs to be considered.

I built a custom turbo manifold for a water cooled T3 on a Toyota I used to own. I missed this detail with the supply and return water lines both coming from below the turbo. When I shutdown it would boil the coolant In the turbo housing for several minutes... had to re-config the top coolant port to run across to the upper rad hose, which allowed coolant to continue to flow thru Thermo-siphon after shutdown resulting in no more boiling...

Again from Garrett:

The input water (colder side, from the engine’s cooling system) should be plumbed into the lower of the two ports after the housing is rotated. The hotter output water leading back into the engine’s cooling system should be plumbed into the higher port and allowed to travel “uphill” all the way back to where it meets the cooling system.

 

[simp5782]

From the Garrett turbo page:

While the engine is running and oil is flowing through the turbo’s bearing system, most of the transferred heat will be absorbed by the oil, preventing damage to the bearings and oil seals.

What do you think cools the oil?

 

[Ohiobenz]

What do you think cools the oil?

Think about what you wrote there.......
The stock 3116 doesn't have water cooled turbo, so the oil still gets cooled by the exact same method.

All the data out there points to water cooling primarily working after engine shut down when the turbo experiences heat sink. Proper plumbing allows the cooling to dissipate that heat into the coolant.

Since the engine isn't running it certainly won't overheat.

Meanwhile the turbo bearings aren't coking up with overheated oil.

YMMV, but I'll stick to going this route, and since nobody posting here appears to have actually done so, I'll be sure to share the results.

 

[Ronmar]

Again from Garrett:

The input water (colder side, from the engine’s cooling system) should be plumbed into the lower of the two ports after the housing is rotated. The hotter output water leading back into the engine’s cooling system should be plumbed into the higher port and allowed to travel “uphill” all the way back to where it meets the cooling system.

It doesn’t really matter where the coolant comes from when running as if connected properly the coolant is pumped and traveling far faster than thermosiphon will move it... The delta to the hot center section is so high The difference in coolant temps is not as important. You just need enough volume to keep the water gallery below the boiling point Which isn’t hard as the Center section is so small, the oil is also carrying away heat and the coolant doesn’t spend much time in there. The important thing is that the Coolant must be able to thermosiphon after shutdown With enough flow to keep from boiling. And I have done this

 

[Ohiobenz]

That's where the issue may be. Recommended angle of the coolant ports is 20 degrees. Once the CHRA is rotated to match the existing LMTV manifold, oil feed, and drain lines, the coolant ports are near horizontal.

 

[Ronmar]

You would have to modify the oil feeds to rotate the center section a little. As I recall the constraint was you don’t want the oil passage More than about 15-20 degrees off of vertical as oil pooling in the turbo is bad. You want the oil to drain away cleanly after shutdown.

Because of the horizontal water passage that makes the supply and return water feed that much more important. You need them to immediately turn into the vertical as much as possible To encourage thermosiphon flow. A little angle on the midsection will encourage this.

Because of the LMTV‘s configuration You pretty much have to pump the coolant down as the water pump is fairly high, the radiator is lower than the engine And everything above the turbo is on the high pressure side of the pump...

 

[Ohiobenz]

The center is positioned exactly like the original turbo. This is another CAT unit, made for the 3126.
Oil feed and drain are positioned vertical, which puts the coolant horizontal.

 

[coachgeo]

The center is positioned exactly like the original turbo. This is another CAT unit, made for the 3126.
Oil feed and drain are positioned vertical, which puts the coolant horizontal.

may be less costly to put a pump inn the turbo coolant lines and not worry about thermosyphon. Use a snap disk heater switch? to shut off solenoid to pump's power feed after coolant reaches temp xyz. Much less costly to do that than to have a new exhaust manifold made. If your doing that might as well add it's own dedicated radiator..... and maybe even battery charged from system /and small solar panel. Adds simplicity of not needing to modify engine coolant plumbing too.

 

[Ohiobenz]

may be less costly to put a pump inn the turbo coolant lines and not worry about thermosyphon. Use a snap disk heater switch? to shut off solenoid to pump's power feed after coolant reaches temp xyz. Much less costly to do that than to have a new exhaust manifold made. If your doing that might as well add it's own dedicated radiator..... and maybe even battery charged from system /and small solar panel. Adds simplicity of not needing to modify engine coolant plumbing too.

I think that as Ron alluded to, as long as the plumbing to the coolant ports enters from a lower point and exits to a higher point, termosiphoning will occur.
The premise per Garrett is that when the engine is shut down, the turbo housing heat soaks into the CHRA and the oil is no longer circulating. That heat will cause expansion of the coolant and it will naturally rise, and in doing so draw lower temperature coolant in from the opposite port.

As you can see, access to the rear port is very tight.