I got ya fleetmech. Cruising speed is realistic. That's one of the major criteria used when selecting a camshaft profile for a mild street V-8 for example. I'm sorry to hear about your parts unavailability problem. I kind of understand because there are no sheet metal parts ( fenders, running boards etc. ) available for my 1952 Dodge pickup. In fact, that's why I swapped a 302 Ford and a 9" rear into it. It's hard to get a 6 cyl Dodge flathead block. You can build a complete 1950s Ford or Chevy pickup from after market parts if you have a million bucks. Dodge......no way. That's a shame about the water pump design being prone to failure. Hard to get around that one. I wonder. Would an after market hot rod electric water pump do the job? They use them on high horsepower always revved out road racing engines all the time. It should be plumbable inline and use 12 v. You know an LDT or a Gold Comet might not run for very long at max rpm, but a 238 or 318 Detroit Diesel, 3406 Cat, or an 855 Cummins will run 2,100 rpm at 85% load almost forever. In the old days before 600 hp 1,800 ft-lb diesel truck engines and electronic fuel injection came about, truckers always kept their engines between 1,700 and 2,100 rpm. Just out of curiosity is your Diamond a 5 sp with a 2 sp rear or is it a twin stick transmission? Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful reply!
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Stupidity at its Finest
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Thought I'd throw this out there - a multifuel F-600 or F-750 by way of body swap onto a deuce and a half...
Well now that's mighty damn cool and a helluva lot easier than adapting an LDT to an F-600 chassis! But why not just leave the Deuce cab on it? Novelty? Just to say I did it? I guess I'm just getting to be an old fart. Thanks for the pics! It sure is something to think about.
teletech
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If you drive around in an F-cab in winter VS. a deuce cab, it's apparent why you might like the F-cab pretty darn quick. It's not drafty, won't leak, the heater will actually keep you warm, and you have wipers that work.
Easier to fit a built crew-cab than extend a deuce cab too.
I love the deuce and owned one years ago, but bought some F800s instead when I needed MDTs for the approximation of creature comfort.
Yeah, I get it. I'm usually trying to get one of the wiper motors unstuck while operating the turn signals and shifting gears all at the same time. I have the artic kit, block heater and a winter front all of which work pretty well. I'm usually wearing insulated coveralls when I drive Brutus in the winter. I almost always arrive at my destination sweaty. You are correct about Deuce cab comfort. I'm 6'1" and weigh only 150 lbs. I have to drive Brutus bow-legged so my left leg misses the steering wheel when I let out the clutch. I can barely get my non-existent belly behind the wheel and I have to duck down to see a traffic light change when I'm approaching one. What's even more preposterous is watching my 6'5" son drive him. I have long believed that the M35A2 was designed by the cast of Monty Pythons Flying Circus.
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https://bangshift.com/general-news/...part-deuce-and-a-half-and-completely-awesome/
Here's a link to the article on that crew cab
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Mathematically, horsepower equals torque multiplied by rpm. H = T x rpm/5252, where H is horsepower, T is pound-feet, rpm is how fast the engine is spinning, and 5252 is a constant that makes the units jibe. So, to make more power an engine needs to generate more torque, operate at higher rpm, or both
Here's a neat link from Spicer Drivetrain that calculates HP or Torque relative to each other based on RPM. According to their calculator a Deuce making 300 ft-lbs of torque at 2,600 rpm is also producing 148.5 hp. https://spicerparts.com/calculators/horsepower-torque-calculator
Actually, I was surprised to find that I found the crew cab Ford to be pretty damned cool. I especially liked that picture of it climbing the dirt berm. Thank you US6x4!
fleetmech
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I almost bought a pilot house Dodge years ago, but it wasn't complicated and loony enough, so I bought a last year (56) V8 Packard with torsion-level instead... I like Packards, Dodges, Deuces and Diamond Reos, lack of parts is just a sad daily reality! I have thought about going the electric pump route, but I also have a 12v Cummins hanging around looking for a new hood to fit under. As it sits it has a Spicer 5 speed, (3052 is it?) the non-od variant of the deuce transmission, and an Eaton air shift 2 speed rear. With 8.5:1 gears in low, it makes the most out of what power it has. Interestingly, it is what was once known as a 'working 4th transmission' so the shift pattern goes from 4th low to 5th low, then 4th hi to 5th hi. Downshifting to upshift is always a conversation starter with a passenger.
Im not sure about some others, but I can definetely attest to the full throttle durability of an 8v-71 detroit! Some friends of mine had an MCI Crusader that lived for, and at, the high speed stop for its whole life: 900,000 on the first engine, they retired it, still running, on the second engine with the odometer rolled over to 275k!
Now that we're well and truly off topic, I hope OP chimes in with some thoughts and plans!
As I'm typing this, I recall someone posted fairly recently that they had inherited a deuce with a strange engine, which turned out to be a Toro-Flo V6 diesel. Rolling proof positive that anything can be swapped if you have the mind to.
snowtrac nome
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A 6-b or 6v 53 would be a more practical swap in to that truck the long 6 will take up half of your cab even the little b cummins will likely require some fire wall mods.
Fleetmech, just the fact that you know what a "pilot house" Dodge cab is means you have the sickness! A "318 Detroit" is a non-turbo 8v-71, but you probably know that. 318 refers to the horsepower rating. The turbo version was 350 horsepower and was called a 8v-71T. I remember the Toro-Flow diesel from the 60's. I once talked my Dad into taking me to a GMC truck dealership so I could scarf up all the big truck brochures. That was when GMC had the 9500 conventional and the "Cracker Box" cab over. From memory, I think the Toro-Flow produced something like 165-175 horsepower. It was used in the medium duty trucks. Thanks for your details on your Reo. I've never driven a split rear only Fuller Road Rangers and Macks. Doesn't the trans try to grind when you go from 5 lo to 4 hi? Do you split the axle before moving the gear lever or after? I guess that means your Reo has full air brakes? Is it a two axle? What was it originally used for a dump, tractor, or straight truck? I think I'm going to bow out of this thread. As a person who has successfully completed a drive train swap, I thought I had some sensible information to offer, but nobody really listens anyway. For some it's more about pushing their own opinion or trying to appear smarter. Sure, anything is hypothetically possible, but that doesn't mean it's beneficial, realistic, or practical.
fleetmech
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Since you're familiar with Detroit nomenclature, you'd probably like our old one at my work: a 16V-149TTBA! Talk about an ear splitting roar!
Driving a split rear is actually very pleasant, its effect is almost identical to split shifting a deuce using the transfer case. I preselect the axle just as I wind out 5th. Breaking torque as you go through neutral allows the axle to shift as you go back to forth. It will work if you shift it progressively (like a Super-10) but the gear spacing is wider in those last few shifts that way. The truck has full air brakes, S-cam in the front, wedge in the back. Her original purpose and configuration is long gone. She ended life as a crane, which was unfortunately ruined and then partially junked by the previous owner leaving only a massively extended flat bed. Its bigger than a deuce, but with less engine...
As for this thread, well, If OP hadn't specifically eliminated a B series, I would have said to use one of those. By far and away its the most practical choice and its what I'm going to use, for whatever thats worth.
Yeah, that would be loud! I used to be down in the steel engine rooms of Navy Mike 6 boats when both 6-71s were screaming away. Never wore ear protection. Ran generators hundreds of times that way too. I'm paying for that now with tinnitus in both my ears. Thanks for the gear splitting info.
Sounds pretty neat. Do you also split the axle in 1-3? Having both wedge and S-cams seems kinda odd. I really don't know what a B series is. Is that a Cummins? Your Diamond would probably make a nice 5 yd dump if the frame were shortened. Post a picture if you can. I'd love to see the cab design and grille. Trucks really had personality in those days.
fleetmech
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Here is the first pic I took of it, just before i drove it out of the pit it had been sitting in for nearly ten years.
I usually split 2-5, though you can split 1st if you want. Its a very flexible system, much more so than a RR. While I'm not sure, I don't think it came with front brakes originally, or they were modified later. An old timer I knew said they looked to be an add on system that was fairly common at one point, used to update trucks that had been built without fronts to meet new DOT commercial standards. There was a longstanding belief in the trucking industry, and some others, that front brakes were a liability, as during heavy braking in inclement weather the front axle could, in theory, lock up before the rears and cause a loss of control. It was not uncommon to see big rigs with front brake shutoff valves in the cab, usually labeled as wet/ dry or something similar. It took a long time for the industry (and drivers) to change their mind, rather like how some people viewed ABS as dangerous in cars when it first came out, as they believed it would make stopping distances longer, or decrease overall brake effectiveness. While I have no proof, I suspect that as drivers were first seeing new and powerful air brakes back in those less regulated days, there probably were some poorly engineered, loaded or maintained trucks that could lock the front brakes too easily, and that probably fueled the myths. While I've never seen one in person, I have seen what appear to be front brake shutoff valves in pictures of Duesenburg dashboards too.
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That is a much heavier looking truck than I expected to see. It would be really heavy for a gas engine with a 5 & 2! I think I drove a tractor with a wet/dry switch once. I can't remember the truck though. It was a long time ago. I remember hearing all that about the belief that front brakes would cause problems on wet roads. Thanks for the pic and the info!
silverstate55
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ABS does, in fact, increase stopping distances. The early attempts in the 1970s were fraught with problems, but once these were ironed out and became standard across the board by the 1990s it worked well. The whole purpose of Anti-Lock Brakes (NOT “Automatic Braking System” as some believe) is to prevent your front wheels from locking up so you can steer around a problem or hazard...with no directional control you will slide right into what you are trying to avoid. BUT, proper ABS employment DOES increase stopping distances.
With ABS brakes, DO NOT pump brakes; they require steady consistent pressure to work properly. The pedal will pulse as the hydraulic pressure in the brake lines is lessened & re-applied to prevent front wheel lockup. Steady pressure only and steer the vehicle around the problem/hazard. This requires a whole lot more explanation and training that is not relevant here.
I’ve felt the ABS engage a few times in my 931 when some idiot isn’t paying attention; same principles apply. As a professional driving instructor for over 15 years, I can tell you proper use of ABS does in fact work, even on commercial-type vehicles over 26K-lbs.
If anybody wants to raise the BS flag, simply go to the NHTSA website for data and proof. I’ve had to pull reams of research and data from their site for training purposes and to testify in court trials.
With ABS brakes, DO NOT pump brakes; they require steady consistent pressure to work properly. The pedal will pulse as the hydraulic pressure in the brake lines is lessened & re-applied to prevent front wheel lockup. Steady pressure only and steer the vehicle around the problem/hazard. This requires a whole lot more explanation and training that is not relevant here.
I’ve felt the ABS engage a few times in my 931 when some idiot isn’t paying attention; same principles apply. As a professional driving instructor for over 15 years, I can tell you proper use of ABS does in fact work, even on commercial-type vehicles over 26K-lbs.
If anybody wants to raise the BS flag, simply go to the NHTSA website for data and proof. I’ve had to pull reams of research and data from their site for training purposes and to testify in court trials.
cucvmule
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Does the diesel dermanator come by when diesel is board?