In-Line Coolant Heater Location?

[Reworked LMTV]

The radiant heat loss is improved by the foil of sound deadening at the top of the engine bay.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

I put my hand against the block after leaving the heater running all night, and it still felt ice cold. It started ok, so something inside was warm, but it's losing a ton of heat to the environment. It didn't seem to warm up any faster (and by that I mean that the gauge bottoms out at like 160°F, and it "never" reaches that while just idling).

Huh? A freeze plug heater doesn't heat the oil at all. The oil is sitting in the pan, and not touching the engine block, so it's basically at outdoor temp.

Well, technically the heat gets transmitted all throughout the "entire engine" per HotStart.

 

[Awesomeness]

Well, technically the heat gets transmitted all throughout the "entire engine" per HotStart.

I can't tell if you are joking. Regardless of what their marketing says, no, you are only heating the coolant and block. The oil almost completely drains into the pan after the engine is shut down, and there are no significant paths for heat to take into the oil (e.g. just the thin walls of the oil pan and pickup tube). So the oil is sitting there at 10°F or whatever. The coolant in the couple cylinders closest to the block heater is probably like 40-50°F, and the cylinders further away are significantly colder (25°F on a 10°F morning?). There won't be much natural circulation of coolant in the engine, due to the heating either. When the engine starts, all that cold oil gets dumped back into the engine and starts cooling things off, but by then the engine has already started and warmed the cylinder walls enough to keep itself running.

In the end, it doesn't really matter, because it works. As long as a couple cylinders are warm enough to start and run more easily, they will bootstrap the rest, and once the engine gets a couple hundred revolutions under its belt the engine compression will have naturally warmed the remaining cold cylinders. This is the time it takes to stop "smoking", which in my experience is less than 30 seconds of running time usually.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

I can't tell if you are joking. Regardless of what their marketing says, no, you are only heating the coolant and block. The oil almost completely drains into the pan after the engine is shut down, and there are no significant paths for heat to take into the oil (e.g. just the thin walls of the oil pan and pickup tube). So the oil is sitting there at 10°F or whatever. The coolant in the couple cylinders closest to the block heater is probably like 40-50°F, and the cylinders further away are significantly colder (25°F on a 10°F morning?). There won't be much natural circulation of coolant in the engine, due to the heating either. When the engine starts, all that cold oil gets dumped back into the engine and starts cooling things off, but by then the engine has already started and warmed the cylinder walls enough to keep itself running.

In the end, it doesn't really matter, because it works. As long as a couple cylinders are warm enough to start and run more easily, they will bootstrap the rest, and once the engine gets a couple hundred revolutions under its belt the engine compression will have naturally warmed the remaining cold cylinders. This is the time it takes to stop "smoking", which in my experience is less than 30 seconds of running time usually.

My "oil pan Snuggie" keeps it nice and warm lol Order now and get "dipstick Snuggie" !

Let me check with the manufacture. See what they have to say.

 

[JD4044M]

My John Deere Diesel Tractor is never plugged in and starts great. I run synthetic oil in it. With out, the battery would not spin the engine very well and oil pressure light would stay on! Changed oil type solved having to heat the engine.

 

[Ronmar]

I put my hand against the block after leaving the heater running all night, and it still felt ice cold. It started ok, so something inside was warm, but it's losing a ton of heat to the environment. It didn't seem to warm up any faster (and by that I mean that the gauge bottoms out at like 160°F, and it "never" reaches that while just idling).

Yea, I should have said coolant. The block will not really feel that warm. you might be able to see some change on the block with an IR as compared to say the temperature of the axle.

Geopen brought up a good point 1-1.5KW pulls a fair bit of current. Line and connector loss can really knock down the peak heat output If it is at the end of a long or small gauge cord...

The heat transfer rate from coolant thru steel/iron to air is pretty well defined. In still air about 1.8 BTU per sq/ft per degree F(about R 0.5). I am guesstimating a 3116 block has maybe 16 sq/ft of exposed surface area, so about 2018 BTU/hr from 70F Coolant in 0F air... That is a lot of loss leaving it run all night...

in any air temperature below about 70F, the LMTV configured 3116 will not reach thermostat opening temp(180F) without a load applied. The normal cat config has the bypass coolant coming out of the head and returning to the water pump to recirculate back thru the block till it is warm enough to open the thermostat. On the LMTV they diverted all the bypass coolant down to the trans cooler. It has 1300# of steel and aluminum to absorb all the heat and all that surface area to radiate. An unloaded engine doesn't make enough heat to overcome that.

I did a test earlier this year. At 65F I started the truck and placed it immediately into drive. Measuring the transmission fluid fittings to and from the cooler at the trans. It took 14 minutes, before the oil coming out of the trans was warmer than the oil coming back from the cooler. It took an additional 14 minutes before the engine coolant was warm enough to open the thermostat(179F on the elbow) and start to flow toward the radiator...

because of all the surface area and the fan blowing air along the length of engine and trans at some point You are going to reach an outside temp that even in drive the ideling engine and trans In drive won’t make enough heat to overcome all this loss, and it will require even more load to get to op temp.

 

[Ronmar]

My John Deere Diesel Tractor is never plugged in and starts great. I run synthetic oil in it. With out, the battery would not spin the engine very well and oil pressure light would stay on! Changed oil type solved having to heat the engine.

Synthetic will help crank load And speed. You have glow-plugs though right?

 

[JD4044M]

Yes it has them so it is easy to start in the winter.

 

[Awesomeness]

That is a lot of loss leaving it run all night...

In most places, it will cost $1-2 to run the heater all night. I found that you only need to plug it in for 30 minutes or so to get a pretty easy start, and plugging it in longer doesn't get you any other operating benefits (e.g. warm air from the heater). But maybe if someone wants to just wake up and go, it's worth the $2 to not wake up early.

 

[snowtrac nome]

i install and use freeze plug heaters where it gets real cold the heat from the internal block will raidate in to the the oil pan. With a 500 watt block heater plugged in all night at -25 the engine will crank and start just fine and 15w40 oil will flow mine started today at 11 degrees with nothing mors than a shot of quick start. im also not cheeping out on batterys i hve 2 8-d s your normal cold weather configuration for a 3116 to c-7 in 12 v is 3 31 series batterys so with even with 4 31 series batterys in series parrell you are under powered in amp hours for cold weather starting.

 

[JD4044M]

Haven't received the Block Heater yet in the mail. Did get my side mirrors and put them on.
Changed the 2 Side Mirror's on the truck to new better ones. Added separate 6" Round curved blind spot ones just below the big one on each side. Don't want to run over a car in my "Blind Spot" anymore!

 

[Mario]

Dave filmed his installation in 3116 a few months ago:

 

[JD4044M]

The freeze plug heater is listed in my parts spreadsheet here in my signature.

The Freeze Plug Heater for the 3116 should be Zerostart "3500015" & 44mm not 50mm. Just knocked mine out easy job went to put the "3500018" in and it is way big! You might want to check this on the Spreadsheet list. Had to order another one online and forgot who I bought the first one from???

 

[Ronmar]

Well the video above clearly shows Dave installing a 3500081 in a 3116 block. There are other videos showing others installing the same model in their 3116’s... the documentation with the one I have, like the one dave shows in the video clearly says it is for 3114,3116 and 3126...

 

[Mario]

So where do I get the most cost-effective block heater for my 3126?

 

[Mario]

Also, I would look into WiFi or PLC (Power Line Carrier), sometimes called UPB (Universal Powerline Bus) smart appliance devices.
You can use Alexa, Google voice, or just your phone to turn on a plug that's attached to your block heater. Just make sure it's an appliance (or relay) device and not a dimmer.
That way, when you wake up, while taking the morning dump, you can turn on the block heater remotely and have your beast ready by the time you're shaven, eaten and on your way out.
No more 'wasted' electricity running the heating block all night.

Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Gosund-Compatible-Required-appliances-Certified/dp/B079MFTYMV
Looks like they're rated at 10Amps, come in 4-pack, and cost less than 8 bucks a piece.

 

[Ronmar]

Also, I would look into WiFi or PLC (Power Line Carrier), sometimes called UPB (Universal Powerline Bus) smart appliance devices.
You can use Alexa, Google voice, or just your phone to turn on a plug that's attached to your block heater. Just make sure it's an appliance (or relay) device and not a dimmer.
That way, when you wake up, while taking the morning dump, you can turn on the block heater remotely and have your beast ready by the time you're shaven, eaten and on your way out.
No more 'wasted' electricity running the heating block all night.

Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Gosund-Compatible-Required-appliances-Certified/dp/B079MFTYMV
Looks like they're rated at 10Amps, come in 4-pack, and cost less than 8 bucks a piece.

Not for this heater. P over IE 1500w(P), divided by 120v(E) = 12.5A(I) of current draw. You need something rated for 15A and an appropriately sized power cable...

 

[JD4044M]

Here is a listing from NAPA for the 3500018 Black heater. 50 mm hole. My block is 44mm much smaller.heater 3500018

Here is a listing for the 3500015 Block Heater 44mm in size.3500015 Listing

 

[Awesomeness]

Here is a listing from NAPA for the 3500018 Black heater. 50 mm hole. My block is 44mm much smaller.heater 3500018

Here is a listing for the 3500015 Block Heater 44mm in size.3500015 Listing

The ZeroStart block heater part number is listed in the spreadsheet here in my signature, also.

 

[Mullaney]

Also, I would look into WiFi or PLC (Power Line Carrier), sometimes called UPB (Universal Powerline Bus) smart appliance devices.
You can use Alexa, Google voice, or just your phone to turn on a plug that's attached to your block heater. Just make sure it's an appliance (or relay) device and not a dimmer.
That way, when you wake up, while taking the morning dump, you can turn on the block heater remotely and have your beast ready by the time you're shaven, eaten and on your way out.
No more 'wasted' electricity running the heating block all night.

Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Gosund-Compatible-Required-appliances-Certified/dp/B079MFTYMV
Looks like they're rated at 10Amps, come in 4-pack, and cost less than 8 bucks a piece.

A lot of these "Home Automation" vendors call them "Appliance Modules". They are good for a coffeemaker, a crockpot or other higher amp draw kitchen appliances. X-10 sells a 15 amp and a 20 amp module. They have the SNAP sound of a 1950's light switch when they power on and off...

I have some of X-10 hardware that I purchased twenty years ago that are still doing their job today. Very durable and extremely reliable for sure... A bit more costly than $8, but everything that will carry more amperage generally costs more. You can even get a home controller and set a particular device to power up or down (multiple times if you want to) any module that you have at ANY TIME.

.