Connecting 2-200 amp panels

[Scoobyshep]

So a "backfeed" is where you take an outlet, such as the dryer outlet, and make a cord so that instead of power coming out of that outlet, you are feeding power into it.
When you have an interlock you are specifically preventing a circuit from being connected to the rest of the panel without the main breaker being off. It does require use of some type of a plug inlet, and I've even seen people use dryer plugs and a double ended cord, but the presence of the interlock means it is no longer a backfeed but an inlet circuit. Once the circuit is no longer capable of being used as a feeder circuit you can't backfeed into it.


I know it's just a matter of viewpoint/terminology, but I will stand behind my statement of "there is no legal/safe method of backfeeding an electrical panel.

Backfeed in the sense that the breaker is passing current into the buss.

Backfeed as in making an outlet an inlet is 1 dangerous and 2 a jackass move.

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[Coug]

Backfeed in the sense that the breaker is passing current into the buss.

Backfeed as in making an outlet an inlet is 1 dangerous and 2 a jackass move.

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definitely.

I've gone through in the past and read reports of linemen who have been injured or killed because some idiot decided his lights being on right now is more important than the safety of the people trying to restore his power.

That's why I get really touchy when the subject of "backfeeding" comes up. I always try to make it extremely clear what is meant because to the majority of people backfeeding means modifying a power cable and feeding power back into the house through an outlet.

 

[Scoobyshep]

definitely.

I've gone through in the past and read reports of linemen who have been injured or killed because some idiot decided his lights being on right now is more important than the safety of the people trying to restore his power.

That's why I get really touchy when the subject of "backfeeding" comes up. I always try to make it extremely clear what is meant because to the majority of people backfeeding means modifying a power cable and feeding power back into the house through an outlet.

I have had friends killed by it.

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[Stinson]

I plan on connecting my generator through a PB50, if I can find one. Kind of like the toilet paper shortage we recently witnessed I guess.

I think anyone who is running a generator is “back feeding” their panel, but I could be wrong about that.
No disagreements here about an interlock system being safer. KISS
Its also not like playing Russian roulette if you don’t have one. I would compare it to hopping in your general aviation airplane and remembering to put fuel in it.

There are some great ideas here that I hadn’t considered, I appreciate it. Thank you!

Cheers

 

[nextalcupfan]

My setup (ATS) doesn't "back-feed" my panel in any way. It simply switch's the power going to the panel from the main disconnect to the generator.

 

[Guyfang]

Pictures, (drawings) speak louder then words.

 

[wcorp87370]

I have a very similar connection.
2 200 amp outside panels
2 inside 200 amp panels at different places in house
LP tank on other side of house

my connection is
1. generator plug wired to one inside panel protected by 50 amp breaker and locked by breaker locking device to be off at all times.
2. Connection of 2 outside 200amp panels with 50amp breaker on each panel and interlock to each panel's main breaker to disconnect from utility.

I had to connect the outside panels to have service for whole house and had to connect to inside panel since the distance between the gas tank and outside panels is great and cable was expensive.
Potential issues, I'm aware of is that connection is left open for generator plug, but locking device and common sense should prevent me to make that mistake.
Any thoughts?

 

[Guyfang]

I have a very similar connection.
2 200 amp outside panels
2 inside 200 amp panels at different places in house
LP tank on other side of house

my connection is
1. generator plug wired to one inside panel protected by 50 amp breaker and locked by breaker locking device to be off at all times.
2. Connection of 2 outside 200amp panels with 50amp breaker on each panel and interlock to each panel's main breaker to disconnect from utility.

I had to connect the outside panels to have service for whole house and had to connect to inside panel since the distance between the gas tank and outside panels is great and cable was expensive.
Potential issues, I'm aware of is that connection is left open for generator plug, but locking device and common sense should prevent me to make that mistake.
Any thoughts?

Don't forget there are billions of other folk on this planet, that may not have your common sense.

Open to see comment.

 

[G744]

A manual transfer switch is not a bad idea, either Square D (Schneider now) and others as well makes them.

They look like the normal steel box with a hand lever on the side. The difference is they have 3 positions: grid, off, and genset.

They come in indoor and outdoor specs. Ampere ratings to whatever is needed.

Get it installed by looping your grid power thru it, and a feed from your genset. Done.

No funny breakers, backfeed outlets, possibilities of errors or nightmares.

Lots cheaper and simpler than an automatic transfer. I use one at our New Mexico cabin site.

DG

 

[Guyfang]

A manual transfer switch is not a bad idea, either Square D (Schneider now) and others as well makes them.

They look like the normal steel box with a hand lever on the side. The difference is they have 3 positions: grid, off, and genset.
This is a must. For you and others lives. Not to mention preventing damage.
They come in indoor and outdoor specs. Ampere ratings to whatever is needed.

Get it installed by looping your grid power thru it, and a feed from your genset. Done.

No funny breakers, backfeed outlets, possibilities of errors or nightmares.

Lots cheaper and simpler than an automatic transfer. I use one at our New Mexico cabin site.


DG

Open to see comment.

 

[glcaines]

I installed a Square D 400-amp manual transfer switch for my MEP003A genset. I got it on Ebay new in the box for ~$200.00, which was a fantastic price. It also powers the whole house so no selecting critical circuits. If you do it right with a transfer switch, there are zero worries.

 

[Mullaney]

I installed a Square D 400-amp manual transfer switch for my MEP003A genset. I got it on Ebay new in the box for ~$200.00, which was a fantastic price. It also powers the whole house so no selecting critical circuits. If you do it right with a transfer switch, there are zero worries.

.
Yes sir - and having to get up out of bed and walk over to manually flip the transfer switch isn't much to ask - to stay safe.

 

[Guyfang]

I am working a system up for a guy here in Germany, What he gave me to hook up, I tossed out. Told him I will not be part of killing some poor line dog working on an outage, with his back feed crap. I found an old scrap box full of used parts and used what I found in it. There is not enough money in the world, to convince me to do a back feed.

We do lots of this kind of hook up, with our PF, Photovoltaic and Bio gas systems. All the farmers have PTO driven gen sets, and when there is an outage, they simply back up to the system, turn the switch and plug in the cable. Safe, Easy and SAFE.

 

[Scoobyshep]

If you think a proper interlock is expensive, You haven't considered the life of someone. Using lockout is known as an administrative control. These are usually avoided because they are easy to defeat. always design based on the lowest common idiot.

 

[glcaines]

If you think a proper interlock is expensive, You haven't considered the life of someone. Using lockout is known as an administrative control. These are usually avoided because they are easy to defeat. always design based on the lowest common idiot.

Scoobyshep is right. When doing it the wrong and dangerous way, you can not only kill someone, which would be horrible, there are other downsides. You can end up in a major lawsuit which could cost you everything, and you can also be prosecuted for manslaughter. It doesn't cost that much to do it the right way by purchasing a transfer switch, and not have to worry about anything. Another thing to consider is that someone else might be in the position to run the generator and that person might not be familiar with the procedure. I've been in that position in the past. I was overseas and I had to tell my sister-in-law how to start and run my MEP003A over the telephone. With the transfer switch it was impossible for her to get it wrong.