Torque stick or torque wrench

[rickdavis81]

About to pull all my wheels off again. My current torque wrench doesn’t go high enough and I’m not sold on using my torque multiplier and doing the math and trusting it (the multiplier not my math lol). Any of use run the torque sticks? I’ve used em a lot on cars and trucks and I’ve checked em and they were always close. Just not sure about the larger ones. Or do you just use a bigger torque wrench? I’ll probably pick up a 3/4” impact to run on with.

 

[HDN]

I feel like I get more utility out of a torque wrench. I can use it for multiple torque values instead of just topping out at one with a torque stick.

I recently bought a 3/4" drive Armstrong dial torque meter from a suspension shop for about $200, calibrated as of last year too. It goes up to 600 ft-lbs. The only downside is that I need to have a helper read the dial for me since I'm over 4' away from it working the handle. It will also work both clockwise and counter-clockwise.

If I didn't have that, I'd use a torque multiplier and do the math. If I remember correctly, you derate the torque of the torque multiplier by 15%-20% due to losses in its gear train.

 

[rickdavis81]

My torque multiplier is a 53 or 58-1. Gets me to around 8lbs then the derating. Just doesn’t seem like it’d be accurate at that much of a difference and being an eBay torque multiplier. It’s awesome for busting lug nuts loose though.

 

[HDN]

My torque multiplier is a 53 or 58-1. Gets me to around 8lbs then the derating. Just doesn’t seem like it’d be accurate at that much of a difference and being an eBay torque multiplier. It’s awesome for busting lug nuts loose though.

I think it helps that the wheel and rim lug nuts have a range of torque that's acceptable, that way someone can use a torque multiplier to get close enough. I'm an engineer at heart and want as much accuracy as I can get, though. So I was able to find a torque wrench that I could afford and do what I need it to do, which is mostly to tighten the bead lock nuts on my M35A3's rims to up to 475 ft-lbs.

 

[Lovetofix]

You can get a 3/4” digital torque meter for about $80.00 150-750 ft. lb.

 

[HDN]

You can get a 3/4” digital torque meter for about $80.00 150-750 ft. lb.

I totally considered getting one of those. For those prices, I've found they didn't come with a warranty and didn't want to get a dud after trying to tighten twenty nuts with 40 more to go. I don't think that's as likely to happen with my torque meter anyway. I guess it depends on who's making it too.

 

[Mullaney]

I totally considered getting one of those. For those prices, I've found they didn't come with a warranty and didn't want to get a dud after trying to tighten twenty nuts with 40 more to go. I don't think that's as likely to happen with my torque meter anyway. I guess it depends on who's making it too.

.
Soliciting an opinion...

Most of us are not in a shop running air tools all day long.
I did that kind of work for years (so I do have some experience to lean on).
I still have the same Ingersol air tools that I used then (rebuilt several times over the years)

My experience on torque on lug nuts for example:
Hammer them home with the air wrench. Watching when the spin stops, hammer some number of times and move to the next in a pattern.
I have a BIG torque wrench and I spot check my work.
Seems that I am really lucky or really observant or something like that...
My measuring with a tool to verify my work shows that I am doing it right.
Reversible torque wrench also confirms (occasionally).

Am I the only one?

I just know for sure that the tire companies don't use a torque wrench when they are on the side of the road doing service...

 

[frank8003]

450 foot pounds.
Land the wheel....tighten it up.
put six feet of pipe on it and have buddy jump on it.
Torque means NOTHING unless the threads are pristine and one just uses 30W motor oil like the TM says to do.
TM says discard the nuts and get new ones, NOT hammer it on with 3/4 160 psi air wrench, doesn't say that.
I found over torque stretches stuff. That is one hell of a study to study, but I doid it.
Look close at your studs. Look close at your nuts. May consider replacing a few things like was done 50 years ago when She was almost new. Your nuts are in the expendable parts list. Your nuts do not last forever.

I sold all my torque wrenches for cheap 450 pound to a thousand.

 

[Mullaney]

450 foot pounds.
Land the wheel....tighten it up.
put six feet of pipe on it and have buddy jump on it.
Torque means NOTHING unless the threads are pristine and one just uses 30W motor oil like the TM says to do.
TM says discard the nuts and get new ones, NOT hammer it on with 3/4 160 psi air wrench, doesn't say that.
I found over torque stretches stuff. That is one hell of a study to study, but I doid it.
Look close at your studs. Look close at your nuts. May consider replacing a few things like was done 50 years ago when She was almost new. Your nuts are in the expendable parts list. Your nuts do not last forever.

I sold all my torque wrenches for cheap 450 pound to a thousand.

.
Thanks Frank.

I can say I haven't lost a wheel or found a lug nut that was missing or loose.

Another thing to consider: That Pre-Trip Inspection is where you will find that "rust drool" around the lug nut. Where you could catch that problem before the wheel fell off and passed you (me) on the road flying down the highway.

Definitely can say my pockets are not as deep as the government.
I don't toss lugnuts in the trash if they thread on smoothly.
Not that it wouldn't be wonderful...
Roadside tire service won't replace them either, so I am no worse or better.

Thanks for the information Frank!
I do have to agree with you. Torque measurement without pristine conditions is pretty useless

 

[martinv]

I use a simple breaker bar, did the math, and put a piece of tape where all my body weight at that point creates the correct torque.
As others said, the condition, cleanliness and lubrication is a factor.
I have a torque multiplier, but don't use it unless a nut is stuck, which is rare.

 

[Floridianson]

450 foot pounds.
Land the wheel....tighten it up.
put six feet of pipe on it and have buddy jump on it.
Torque means NOTHING unless the threads are pristine and one just uses 30W motor oil like the TM says to do.
TM says discard the nuts and get new ones, NOT hammer it on with 3/4 160 psi air wrench, doesn't say that.
I found over torque stretches stuff. That is one hell of a study to study, but I doid it.
Look close at your studs. Look close at your nuts. May consider replacing a few things like was done 50 years ago when She was almost new. Your nuts are in the expendable parts list. Your nuts do not last forever.

I sold all my torque wrenches for cheap 450 pound to a thousand.

I do not think you need a 6 foot bar and someone to jump on it. As a matter of fact I know you do not need a 6 foot bar and someone to jump on it to put on the lug nuts. I have a reversible torque wrench and we need reversible because of the lefty tighty thing on the drivers side. Also I am 180 pounds and my four foot torque wrench with just using my two hands one on top of the other and pushing down I can get my 475psi with no trouble. What I have said before we are looking for a consistent torque on all the retainers. Mine is made by Precision Instruments and is one inch drive reversible 600 foot pounds beam type. Also when using my one inch M18 fuel I use power setting number one and that might be 200 foot pounds. I have not measured the torque on setting one but it is not that much. But as said I start with lowest setting on the M18 and switch to the torque wrench to finish off to correct torque. We do not bounce / jump on or put uneven pressure on the bar but steady even pressure till we reach torque.

 

[frank8003]

NYSDOT PTSB SAFETY ADVISORY​

Re: LOOSE LUG NUTS ON TRANSIT BUSES

DATE: October 7, 2012

ISSUE: Results and recommendations from survey



It is advised that all PTSB bus properties review the recommendations attached in this advisory and implement them if not currently in place.



As a result of two loose wheel incidents in 2011 (attachment 1) and a PTSB survey conducted in 2012 of all PTSB jurisdictional properties (attachment 2), the PTSB staff recommends the following actions to ensure proper securement of all bus wheels (this is in addition to generally accepted maintenance practices for wheel securement and is specific to loose lug nuts):



MAINTENANCE

• The most common cause of loose lug nuts is an under torque or over torque condition. Therefore, it is recommended that proper attention be paid to ensure that correct torque values are maintained in accordance with the requirements stipulated by the manufacturer of the bus. Develop and implement a re-torque program which is to be utilized whenever wheels are removed. Data should be collected and documented in file as to torque rates, dates, and bus mileage. Re-torque should occur after 50-100 miles of use, or at mile intervals as recommended by the manufacturer. Quality torque rating equipment must be used and data filed with maintenance records. Torque should be applied by a correctly sized, properly calibrated impact gun, torque wrench, or other torque rating equipment. Do not check torque values when wheels are excessively hot (from recent use), as false values can be indicated. Note: a 1” impact gun (impact wrench), commonly used in garages can easily over torque to a 500 ft/pound rating. AN IMPACT WRENCH, IF NOT PROPERLY CALIBRATED, SHOULD NOT BE USED TO ESTABLISH FINAL TORQUE VALUES.
• 
  
• Do NOT use an anti-seize compound on studs or vertical mounting surfaces.
• 
  
• During PMI’s and after wheel removal, inspect for crushing of slinger material under inner nuts and washers which is an indication of high bolt tension from an over-torque condition.
• 
  
• During wheel changes, look for stud fatigue fractures which are indications of long time loose wheel studs.
• 
  
• All identified failures of any type should be documented in the maintenance file and reviewed for a potential fleet trend.
• 
  
• Some systems have had success using loose wheel lug indicators to assist bus operators identify loose lugs during their pre-trip or post-trip inspections.
• 
  
• Report wheel off failures (required by regulation) or chronic part failures to your local PTSB Investigator or NYSDOT MVI for follow up action and advice.

When I was mo young I worked like I was 23 when I was 58.
Those daze are gone too..................
I just wanted to post that those more young than Me should see it all as a Mans job.
I wish you all the best
......................And wasted wheels make great fire pits.
I R or was 91B2P and a machinist mechanic engineer worker bee.

 

[Floridianson]

I use a simple breaker bar, did the math, and put a piece of tape where all my body weight at that point creates the correct torque.
As others said, the condition, cleanliness and lubrication is a factor.
I have a torque multiplier, but don't use it unless a nut is stuck, which is rare.

How long is you bar? I dragged out my old four way and measured my bar and it was four feet. I used this before I got the torque wrench. I did not jump on it just pulled down nice and easy not even using all my strength but a good pull. No sense popping the family jewels when I do not have to just let the cheater do it's work. Never had a wheel nut come loose. For smitts and giggles I have to pull the passenger side front oil hub on my 915. I all ready did the drivers side to change the oil and inspect bearings. What I will do is use the four way and my cheater when I put the wheel back on and see what kind of torque I am putting on then check with torque wrench.

 

[CMPPhil]

Good thread no matter what size vehicle you are working on.

All my trucks are 1940s vintage so the manuals do not have torque values listed for anything outside the engine. So to establish a lug nut torque I looked at the wheel tools called for in the manual. Length of the braker bar for the lug and figure the max torque the average 1940s guy could exert. Which is probably in the 150-160 ft lbs range, 40 plus years and no loose nuts. Consistency is probably as important as maximizing the torque, that and checking the nuts at least one a year. Another trick I used is using a paint pencil to put a dot on end of the thread and nut. Let's you see at a glance if nut has shifted.

Cheers Phil

PS Glad I don't have lug nuts that in 450 ft.lbs range I don't know what I'd do.

 

[Mullaney]

Good thread no matter what size vehicle you are working on.

All my trucks are 1940s vintage so the manuals do not have torque values listed for anything outside the engine. So to establish a lug nut torque I looked at the wheel tools called for in the manual. Length of the braker bar for the lug and figure the max torque the average 1940s guy could exert. Which is probably in the 150-160 ft lbs range, 40 plus years and no loose nuts. Consistency is probably as important as maximizing the torque, that and checking the nuts at least one a year. Another trick I used is using a paint pencil to put a dot on end of the thread and nut. Let's you see at a glance if nut has shifted.

Cheers Phil

PS Glad I don't have lug nuts that in 450 ft.lbs range I don't know what I'd do.

.
Agreed. Paint Pencil is a good solution! What I called "rust drool" on lug nuts and rims are another good indicator...





Because everybody wants to buy or sell something to solve a problem, there are parts for sale. Only difficulty is that the actual pretrip inspection - done by a driver that cares who lives or dies - or who he or she kills is only done by a competent person. Even with the indicators on the lug nut, not looking won't solve the problem.

Back when I was a student school bus driver, most of the guys and gals who did that job had some mechanical ability. Today the 300 pounder who can barely squeeze between the seat and steering wheel just collecting a check, not so much.

 

[HDN]

View attachment 834478

So that's how they're supposed to look! None of the buses I've seen around here have the lug nut tag thingies (technical term ) like that.

 

[martinv]

How long is you bar? I dragged out my old four way and measured my bar and it was four feet. I used this before I got the torque wrench. I did not jump on it just pulled down nice and easy not even using all my strength but a good pull. No sense popping the family jewels when I do not have to just let the cheater do it's work. Never had a wheel nut come loose. For smitts and giggles I have to pull the passenger side front oil hub on my 915. I all ready did the drivers side to change the oil and inspect bearings. What I will do is use the four way and my cheater when I put the wheel back on and see what kind of torque I am putting on then check with torque wrench.

About 3 feet. My body weight (190 lbs) a few inches from the end is the correct torque, if I calculated correctly.

 

[Floridianson]

About 3 feet. My body weight (190 lbs) a few inches from the end is the correct torque, if I calculated correctly.

I have a math block so I need my four way or the torque wrench. Also need to find work for the torque wrench as the cost of it was not cheap.