Squibbly's M1009 and other Questionable Projects

[nyoffroad]

Yeah, I need new window and door seals all the way around. I hit these with some silicone spray for the time being, but they'll all be getting replaced soon.

The truck had this tool in it. I assume it was for opening that window without a crank. Works perfect for that.

I think thats a wrench for water or gas valves. But then again it could be for Blazer windows.

 

[Squibbly]

I think thats a wrench for water or gas valves. But then again it could be for Blazer windows.

Nice. So if I ever don't pay my water or gas bill, I'm all set.

 

[ezgn]

I think thats a wrench for water or gas valves. But then again it could be for Blazer windows.

I think it's a tool for giant brake drum springs.

 

[Squibbly]

Another day, another problem.
-Got the window crank installed.
-Had a hard start issue. Negative cable getting hot from too much resistance. Cleaned all the grounds. Problem went away.
-Had a slight tick at the flywheel, but that went away. This flywheel is definitely not flat. I should have looked for the GM brand.

-I've got a tick when I go into any forward gear in first gear I suppose. Park, Neutral, or Reverse no noise.
If I put it in drive and hold one foot on the brake and hit the gas with the other the tick is there at around 2k RPM I'd guess., so it's not a rock in the tires, the drive shafts aren't spinning, tires aren't rotating, so it's something internal.

Tomorrow I'm going to disconnect the flex plate from the torque converter. I REALLY hope this flex plate didn't crack already.
If it did...then I'll have the GM one on order, and it'll take me much less time this go-round.

 

[Squibbly]

So as I sat awake last night thinking about my ticking problem, I had an epiphany.
The manual say's to mark the position of the torque converter and flywheel, but I didn't do that because I was putting in a new flywheel.

The manual says that the TC has 6 bolts, mine only has 3. So I went through my inspection video, and noticed that the hole in the middle of the weight attached to the flexplate was attached to a specific hole on the TC.

(From the inspection video)



I don't remember bolting that weight down to a spot on the TC, and there are 6 holes on the flexplate you can line up with the TC.

Maybe it was somehow balanced with the TC and if I put it back just like it was, the ticking will stop (assuming the flexplate isn't damaged).

I'm also wondering what this plate is on the side of the TC? A Weight?

(From the inspection video)


I guess it's not going to hurt to try it.

 

[royalflush55]

Heavy duty applications and diesels had the 6 pad torque convertor. I would think yours has been changed to the three pad at some point

 

[Squibbly]

Heavy duty applications and diesels had the 6 pad torque convertor. I would think yours has been changed to the three pad at some point

Thanks for the info.



New TC on order.

I didn't have this clicking noise even with the three pad one prior to installing the new flexplate so I'm still going to try to get this one going as is.

Then once the new TC arrives, and I "eats me spinach", I'll drops the transmission and swap it out with the correct one.

 

[Bill Nutting]

Wow.
See, this is something I didn't know. I always thought it was based on the items you were bolting together (and it kind of is), but didn't put the 2+2 together that they used specific bolts when engineering it, and the torque was based on the bolt used (which the engineers hopefully did all the math for).

Some engineer at some point did the math and decided that 6 grade 5 bolts, torqued to 30ish FT-LB is all that is needed to handle whatever load the transmission to block requires (hopefully without shaking loose). If the bolt is torqued to 31 FT-LB, then the clamping force of a 3/8 - 16 Bolt is between 480-560 LBS (depending on if the bolt is lubed or not) at each bolt. Assuming I put all the right numbers into the calculator.

Bolt Torque, Axial Clamp Force, Bolt Diameter Calculator | Engineers Edge

If you follow the 80LB Torque from the guide you are putting between 1333 and 1666 LBs of clamping force on each bolt, which seems excessive for an aluminum case.

You would have to put 396 FT-LB of torque on a 3/8 - 16 Grade 5 Bolt for it to deform...but, I'm sure the transmission housing would crack way before then.

There is the potential that I'm totally wrong and didn't understand this (math isn't my strong suit).

It doesn't really matter at the end of the day, but I just like to try to understand the "why" of things.

Ultimately as @cucvrus said...just make sure they are tight

Now for the stupid question, which IS my strong suit, if these bolts are prone to vibrating loose, why not use lock tight to keep them tightened to spec? I use lock tight a lot when I want to be sure my fasteners are going to stay put. When using nuts and bolts, my first choice is to use nyllock nuts.

 

[cucvrus]

The new torque converter bolts have lock tight designed into the threads of the bolts. It is blue, yellow, or red. I use some blue lock tight if I am going to reuse the bolts again. Someone has put the incorrect torque converter in your M1009. I never encountered a diesel with a 3 bolt converter. I have however encountered a few rebuilt converters that had standard 3/8" bolts and NOT the stock M10 bolts. I never knew the converters and flex plates were inter changeable. I suspect the wobble in the flexplate is because the 3 bolts cannot hold the flexplate tight enough and even enough against the torque converter. Good Luck.

 

[Squibbly]

OK. So here's the deal.
I unbolted the flex plate (FP) from the torque converter (TC). The flex plate isn't cracked or broken.
I reattached the FP to the TC at the *exact* locations of the old one.
Sound was 10 times worse.

Here is the video of the noise.

So, because it's so close to the oil pan, and rear main bearing that I had to remove to get to the rear seal when I changed that. I couldn't tell if the noise was from there or the plate.
So I disconnected the FP from the TC to see if the noise changed, went away, or stayed the same. Yes, that's duct tape keeping the TC back. I wasn't sure if it would vibrate forward. As I always say "Safety third".

Much more tinny sound that was definitely coming from the FP. It's hitting something.

Ugh. Fongool!! Not my new starter.

So, since I didn't have this issue with the old plate, I'm going to go with this plate is warped.
I've got the new (re-manned) 6 pad TC coming. Maybe I do need to order a new plate.

Anyone got a source for known "good" plates?
Also, what should the distance be between the flywheel and the starter shelf that my flex plate is hitting? It doesn't seem like it should be hitting it even with the TC disconnected.

The good news is, I can take down a starter in less than 5 minutes now.

 

[cucvrus]

I agree. If you have a 6 bolt flexplate you need a 6 bolt torque converter. I don't see how the 6 bolt flexplate would ever be seated properly on a 3 bolt torque converter. I wish you would have mentioned this earlier. I would say the starter is fine but I only ever seen 2 of them HD cast steel nose starters. I think you have this handled. Good Luck.

 

[Squibbly]

I wish you would have mentioned this earlier.

That makes two of us. I figured, it was working, so it must be OK to use it.
That's the "not a mechanic" in me. Now I know.

Here is the old FP. It clearly at some point in it's life had all 6 bolts connected.

How would the other one not have had the same issue I wonder...or maybe it did, and that's why I'm doing this job twice?




Welp...guess I get another gym workout.

Anyone could have done this job once, but it takes a special kind of person to do it twice on the same vehicle.
At least I know all the angles I need to get to all the bolts, all the tips and tricks, and every bolt I need to get to has already been PB Blasted.

 

[ezgn]

OK. So here's the deal.
I unbolted the flex plate (FP) from the torque converter (TC). The flex plate isn't cracked or broken.
I reattached the FP to the TC at the *exact* locations of the old one.
Sound was 10 times worse.

Here is the video of the noise.

So, because it's so close to the oil pan, and rear main bearing that I had to remove to get to the rear seal when I changed that. I couldn't tell if the noise was from there or the plate.
So I disconnected the FP from the TC to see if the noise changed, went away, or stayed the same. Yes, that's duct tape keeping the TC back. I wasn't sure if it would vibrate forward. As I always say "Safety third".

Much more tinny sound that was definitely coming from the FP. It's hitting something.

View attachment 851901

Ugh. Fongool!! Not my new starter.

So, since I didn't have this issue with the old plate, I'm going to go with this plate is warped.
I've got the new (re-manned) 6 pad TC coming. Maybe I do need to order a new plate.

Anyone got a source for known "good" plates?
Also, what should the distance be between the flywheel and the starter shelf that my flex plate is hitting? It doesn't seem like it should be hitting it even with the TC disconnected.

The good news is, I can take down a starter in less than 5 minutes now.

From watching your video it looks like a warped flex plate is your problem. To my eye it appears to show a distinct wobble. You would think that the space between the flex plate and the starter would have a little bit more clearance . I assume the new starter is the same as the old. Bummer about your troubles, I hope a new flex plate will solve the issues, and a 6 bolt TC will keep it going trouble free. Good job!!

 

[royalflush55]

Tip. Always install first bolt into TC in elongated hole in flex plate. The hole is elongated from the ring gear towards the center where it bolts to crank. It is located about 4:30 o'clock in your last picture.

 

[ezgn]

Thanks for the info.

View attachment 851887

New TC on order.

I didn't have this clicking noise even with the three pad one prior to installing the new flexplate so I'm still going to try to get this one going as is.

Then once the new TC arrives, and I "eats me spinach", I'll drops the transmission and swap it out with the correct one.

View attachment 851889

I think at one time they came with the 3 pad TC.

 

[Squibbly]

Tip. Always install first bolt into TC in elongated hole in flex plate. The hole is elongated from the ring gear towards the center where it bolts to crank. It is located about 4:30 o'clock in your last picture.

Is there a specific reason for this to be the first bolt? I assume it is the hole with the smaller hole drilled in the same pad to be specific.

 

[Squibbly]

From watching your video it looks like a warped flex plate is your problem. To my eye it appears to show a distinct wobble. You would think that the space between the flex plate and the starter would have a little bit more clearance . I assume the new starter is the same as the old. Bummer about your troubles, I hope a new flex plate will solve the issues, and a 6 bolt TC will keep it going trouble free. Good job!!

On top of the 5 times I dropped the new starter, I also put in the old starter, and the flex plate is the same way. It hits it.
I would think that regardless of if the TC is connected to the FP or not, it shouldn't hit the starter.

Once I pull back the tranny, I will put both of these FPs on a flat surface and connect them like gears and turn them. I'm guessing this is just a shitty FP., or the ring gear was welded too far back.

Hindsight...I should have done more to make sure the parts I'm using are good.
Problem is, I'm not sure exactly what the specs should be on a flex plate. I watched a youtube video with a guy who fixes mail trucks who does the test like above. He said he frequently gets warped or bad flex plates.

Flywheel Tip - YouTube

These old cars are an adventure. TBH, my favorite cars have always been beaters, and old cars. I never knew if I was going to have the good fortune to break down someplace and be able to just take out my vehicle toolkit and fix it. For anything I can't fix on the side of the road, I have an AAA gold membership.

I don't like doing something twice, but that's the lesson. I don't know what I don't know, but now I know more. It takes a lot of mistakes on the road to a success.

 

[royalflush55]

Is there a specific reason for this to be the first bolt? I assume it is the hole with the smaller hole drilled in the same pad to be specific.

Correct on the smaller drilled hole. This hole gives proper alignment for the flex plate to the TC.

 

[ezgn]

On top of the 5 times I dropped the new starter, I also put in the old starter, and the flex plate is the same way. It hits it.
I would think that regardless of if the TC is connected to the FP or not, it shouldn't hit the starter.

Once I pull back the tranny, I will put both of these FPs on a flat surface and connect them like gears and turn them. I'm guessing this is just a shitty FP., or the ring gear was welded too far back.

Hindsight...I should have done more to make sure the parts I'm using are good.
Problem is, I'm not sure exactly what the specs should be on a flex plate. I watched a youtube video with a guy who fixes mail trucks who does the test like above. He said he frequently gets warped or bad flex plates.

Flywheel Tip - YouTube

These old cars are an adventure. TBH, my favorite cars have always been beaters, and old cars. I never knew if I was going to have the good fortune to break down someplace and be able to just take out my vehicle toolkit and fix it. For anything I can't fix on the side of the road, I have an AAA gold membership.

I don't like doing something twice, but that's the lesson. I don't know what I don't know, but now I know more. It takes a lot of mistakes on the road to a success.

You have a good attitude, that is 99% most important quality to have in life. Mistakes do pave the road to success in life. You will be helping others in the future who are in the same situation.

 

[ezgn]

On top of the 5 times I dropped the new starter, I also put in the old starter, and the flex plate is the same way. It hits it.
I would think that regardless of if the TC is connected to the FP or not, it shouldn't hit the starter.

Once I pull back the tranny, I will put both of these FPs on a flat surface and connect them like gears and turn them. I'm guessing this is just a shitty FP., or the ring gear was welded too far back.

Hindsight...I should have done more to make sure the parts I'm using are good.
Problem is, I'm not sure exactly what the specs should be on a flex plate. I watched a youtube video with a guy who fixes mail trucks who does the test like above. He said he frequently gets warped or bad flex plates.

Flywheel Tip - YouTube

These old cars are an adventure. TBH, my favorite cars have always been beaters, and old cars. I never knew if I was going to have the good fortune to break down someplace and be able to just take out my vehicle toolkit and fix it. For anything I can't fix on the side of the road, I have an AAA gold membership.

I don't like doing something twice, but that's the lesson. I don't know what I don't know, but now I know more. It takes a lot of mistakes on the road to a success.

As bad as the flywheel in the video was, I bet a feeler gauge under the flex plate ring gear would also show up the problem if you have a flat surface and did not have an extra flex plate. Good video.