new to me MEP003a - question on fuel delivery

[Hectorsosa]

Good morning all - I recently won a MEP003a at a local auction, which I picked up yesterday. 990 hours, looks like it spent a good portion of it's life outside, but not in bad shape considering...

Question is on fuel delivery - auction house listed the unit as "running". Brand new fuel line goes from transfer pump in port on the day tank to the input on the transfer pump. Solenoid is still in place... another new line goes from solenoid to water separator. Fuel tank is about 3/4 full. There's a set of leads that have been added, going from the battery tray (no batteries) to the transfer pump. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even with the pump hotwired, unless that solenoid is bad she's not getting fuel, correct?

I'm gonna troubleshoot tomorrow - to remove complexity fro troubleshooting, I only need one lift pump connected to get fuel to IP, correct? Second is redundant?

Given the issues I found with fuel delivery, any recommendations on what else I should check before I turn the main switch? I know the answer is "everything" but I'm still debating whether or not previous owner even had this thing long enough to screw it up bad. If they couldn't get fuel...

 

[rickf]

I would have to go look at mine but from the description you are giving it sounds like the line coming from the tank is actually where the fuel would have been pumped into the day tank from a larger storage tank. Hence the "transfer in". If you are trying to pump fuel out of that line you are probably just getting air. You have three lines, the transfer in, pump return and supply. You need the supply line. And yes, you can use just one pump but I suggest you drop the filter on the bottom of the pump to make sure it is clear. Bottom of pump twists off to get the filter screen.

 

[Hectorsosa]

"it sounds like the line coming from the tank is actually where the fuel would have been pumped into the day tank from a larger storage tank."

Absolutely correct. What I forgot to mention in my previous post is I've got a 002 that I've had for several years. I know how this SHOULD be plumbed, but I'm second guessing why they did what they did. Maybe they don't know anything about the genset, maybe there was a reason...

"you are probably just getting air."

I hadn't thought of that. If there's no dip tube it's drawing from open air, not fuel.

"I suggest you drop the filter..."

Yep - I'll do that first thing - thanks for the reminder

 

[Scoobyshep]

Fuel should come from the tank to fuel pumps E2 and E3 to the water separator through 2 filters to the injection pump.

The aux pump E1 should feed through Solenoid (K4) to the tank.

If your set is plumbed from E1 to the water separator, then someones made changes.

Attached is the fuel schematic from the -12 manual page 1-9

 

[Hectorsosa]

The aux pump E1 should feed through Solenoid (K4) to the tank.

If your set is plumbed from E1 to the water separator, then someones made changes.

In other words, it should be plumbed just like my 002. Yep, lots of changes on this one. The more I think about it, I think the water separator is plumbed to the INPUT of E1. Schematic shows solenoid on output of E1 - tank is plumbed to solenoid. Even if they had the right tank port they were still doomed. E2 and E3 still plumbed together but not plumbed to anything else, E2 and E3 still wired to power.

An update if anybody wants a chuckle - I got a call back from the auction house. They verified the seller misinformed them (lied) and that he was never able to get the unit running, even though he stated it runs when he dropped it off. When I told them I have the little brother 002a at home they asked if I think I can correct the problem. Um, yes. They told me to take pictures of everything I do and let them know no later than noon monday if the unit runs or not. I think they're a little grumpy with the seller....

 

[Guyfang]

Take your time. Do it right. There is NO DIFFERANCE between the 002A and 003A

 

[rickf]

And tell the auction house you want a discounted price! I doubt they will argue.

 

[Hectorsosa]

And tell the auction house you want a discounted price! I doubt they will argue.

options are to keep it or bring it back for full refund. After all fees I paid just under $600 - I already damn near stole it.

 

[Hectorsosa]

Update: I'm now getting fuel at the return, but it's a pretty slow stream. I think it's sufficient but... I got it to pop on starter fluid and it's blowing exhaust in to the head area from the forward cylinder. Loud pops and smoke from under the cover. Anything simple I can check without pulling the shrouds, or should I dump this back in the sellers lap if I'm not looking for a project?

 

[Scoobyshep]

Update: I'm now getting fuel at the return, but it's a pretty slow stream. I think it's sufficient but... I got it to pop on starter fluid and it's blowing exhaust in to the head area from the forward cylinder. Loud pops and smoke from under the cover. Anything simple I can check without pulling the shrouds, or should I dump this back in the sellers lap if I'm not looking for a project?

When cranking the intake heater and block heater are live.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[rickf]

If the intake heater is working and you shoot it with ether you could blow a head off of it. More likely it will light off in the intake but from what you are describing that may be what they did. BUT, for 600.00 it would be worth working on or just reselling as a project. These things are bringing stupid money now. That shroud is simple to get off. I would pull it off and crank it, without the ether, and see if it is puffing vapor out of the head gasket. If not then it is probably something simple. Fuel, air, compression, That is all that is needed to run.

 

[Hectorsosa]

Auction house asked me not to do too much until they talk to the guy again.

Intake heater IS working, and I've gotten flashover in the past. I wouldn't want that in an air cleaner can this big - being careful.

I did take the endcap of the IP - plunger works. I'm getting white smoke out of the exhaust, but not a lot. Solenoid is is pulling up all the way.

Fuel, air, compression - is there a reliable way to check diesel fuel to see if it's good? I figured I'd at least get a pop even if it's old.

 

[rickf]

If you have fuel coming out of the return then it should be the same fuel you put in it. Have you bled out all the filters? Starting with fresh fuel is always a good idea to eliminate at least one problem. If you have fuel return then you have enough fuel getting to the pump. Whether the injectors are working very well remains to be seen. Personally I would drain all the filters and then take the line off of the last one before the pump and turn on the switch and see what comes out of the line. If you are just trying to start on whatever was in the filters it could be water for all you know.

 

[Hectorsosa]

it's fuel. I cracked the line before the third canister and ran the pump until I got fuel. Fuel in return line.

 

[Guyfang]

1. If I could only be there with my wooded mallet, to correct your fingers and starter fluid can.......................................

2. If you want to clean this set up, do it right. Take the fuel system off, and apart. Clean it. Clean it right. Like you are going to eat out of it. Clean & Test the E-Pumps. Take your time putting it back together. Do it right. You never stated if you had replaced the filters and Cleaned the water separator.

3.There is also a check valve just before your IP. Remove it, check it, clean it.

4. Look at the IP. Do you get the feeling that someone has had it off? Foolish people remove it without reading and UNDERSTANDING the procedure. Then re-install it the same way. Not understanding the procedure. This can also prevent the set from starting. And if the original owner lied about other stuff, he sure as hell is not going to tell you he had it off.

 

[rickf]

4. Look at the IP. Do you get the feeling that someone has had it off? Foolish people remove it without reading and UNDERSTANDING the procedure. Then re-install it the same way. Not understanding the procedure. This can also prevent the set from starting. And if the original owner lied about other stuff, he sure as hell is not going to tell you he had it off.

This is exactly what I think I am dealing with on one of my 002's, just have not had the time to run the timing check. All the checks are pretty easy to do, just read the book. attention to detail.

You could return it but you have 600 in it and running these are fetching 3,000 and up.

 

[Ray70]

I'd be curious if your glow plugs are actually heating and if the injectors are working correctly That machine will never fire up even on a mildly cool day without the glow plugs ( intake heaters alone will not cut it )
You might need to preheat for 30 seconds, but should also verify the glow plugs are getting hot.
The smoke puffing under the sheetmetal could be leaking exhaust flanges or.... worst case blown head gasket (s)
But still fear not, even head gaskets are very easy to change and can be bought cheap if you look in the right place.
For $600 I would not return it.... but if you get too frustrated I'll buy it off you!

 

[rickf]

I was going to make the same offer but I ain't driving to Michigan in the winter!

 

[Hectorsosa]

I took it back this morning. If it were spring, and I didn't already have a hundred projects, and I didn't have a running genny that's almost big enough, oh - and if the wife wasn't reminding me that Christmas is in two weeks and I was gonna sell the 002 by then...

WAF will get a guy every time. bidnow.com probably relisting next thursday if anybody's interested.