FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[Speedwoble]

This is the first I have heard that you should never run with the master disconnect engaged. Can you explain why it is bad to do so?

I think Sgt Jiggins above is warning to follow good safety practices while testing the fans, not discussing normal operation.

 

[glcaines]

Check and see if the fans will turn manually. On my FLU, one fan was seized up while the other was fine. I found an NOS fan motor on Ebay fairly cheap, but haven't installed it yet. I tested my fans by blowing a heat gun over the sensor. My fans never come on while using the backhoe, even in warm weather, but I keep the RPMs low.

 

[The FLU farm]

Being lazy, as usual, I test the fans by bridging the thermostat on top of the cooler. Removing two bolts and using a jumper wire is so easy that even I can do it.

 

[rtrask]

Being lazy, as usual, I test the fans by bridging the thermostat on top of the cooler. Removing two bolts and using a jumper wire is so easy that even I can do it.

Easier still is just to clip the leads of Power Probe II to battery and test it out, No wrench involved

 

[The FLU farm]

Easier still is just to clip the leads of Power Probe II to battery and test it out, No wrench involved

Not really. I have wrenches, and wire. Driving to somewhere where they sell Power Probes sounds like work.

 

[Sgt Jiggins]

This is the first I have heard that you should never run with the master disconnect engaged. Can you explain why it is bad to do so?

The alternator outputting without a load (eg, attached batteries) is a bad idea.

 

[Sgt Jiggins]

Among the other things that I have not yet bothered to make work are the two switches to bump up the RPMs and to raise and lower the front bucket. It is less than ideal, but I just leave the front bucket up a couple of inches and use the manual throttle to set the RPMs. It is on my "to do" list to fix that,, but it is a long list and it may be a while. Have any of you all got those switches working properly, and how hard / expensive was it?

Sounds like you're in much the same boat I was (many of us were) when we first got our SEEs... a bit of uncertainty with some things half-working/unknown...

Best advice I can give you:

1)Be Patient.
2)As you discovered, RTFM. They're actually very good&informative.
3)These machines need Maintenance and to be Run. These two things are critical and will address many issues. Change fluids (maybe not all the hydraulic oil... use your noggin), filters, ... NAPA is your friend.

And then, again, be patient. It took a while for the air activated switches mounted on my fan box on the back to start working. And then.... one day they did. It kinda surprised me when it happened because I wasn't expecting it.

Be safe. Have fun.

 

[Sgt Jiggins]

Also non standard because I put an electric fuel pump in line before the pre-filter screen.

One thing you'll find about SS is that folks are helpful, open and curious. I've asked a lot of "dumb" questions myself and have never been pooped on. Speaks volumes to the awesome community.

With that said, I'd like to offer a thought:

The Germans put a Lot of thought into machinery, with Unimogs included. It's as much a cultural thing for them as anything. So while it's your machine and you're absolutely within rights to modify as wanted/needed, you might take a step back before doing so.

Just a thought.

 

[Sgt Jiggins]

Well, as I recall the FLUs are rated to tow 16,000 lbs. Much more than my M1008 ever was, even when stock.

I was stunned the first time I pulled my M35A3 (sideways on asphalt - complicated unload of M35A3 in a tight spot) with my SEE. It was like the M35A3 wasn't even back there.

It was nice that it had all the "ass" (and then some) for the job but also sobering to learn just how careful one must be with such a tool.

 

[rtrask]

One thing you'll find about SS is that folks are helpful, open and curious. I've asked a lot of "dumb" questions myself and have never been pooped on. Speaks volumes to the awesome community.

With that said, I'd like to offer a thought:

The Germans put a Lot of thought into machinery, with Unimogs included. It's as much a cultural thing for them as anything. So while it's your machine and you're absolutely within rights to modify as wanted/needed, you might take a step back before doing so.

Just a thought.

When I first got my SEE I was a regular on this thread. I put a lot of work into getting it more or less functional. At that time I was living in the suburbs of Denver, and there was limited work I could do with the backhoe. My wife got tired of the rather large lawn ornament and I moved it down to our land in the San Luis Valley of Colorado. With it being 180 + miles away there was not much I could do to improve it. Then it would not start.

One of the things that Mercedes did which is not universally loved is the use of the hard plastic lines fuel lines. I had replaced several of these while I had it in Denver, and it was running great before I moved it down here. I did a fair amount of head scratching and could not figure it out. I was afraid the issue was with the injectors. My nephew was the one that suggested the electric fuel pump and when we put it on it started running like a top again and I found that there was a small amount of wetness from diesel on the short hard line that fed into the pre-filter. So the problem was that it was sucking air in the fuel line and that was why it was not running. I could probably remove the electric pump, but I see no advantage to doing so.

I agree that they are well engineered, and most things are not improved by modifying them on the SEE. Still they are not perfect and the saying "If it aint broke don't fix it" cuts two ways. It is hard for me to get motivated to remove the electric fuel pump at this time.

 

[rtrask]

My hydraulic fluid has water in it. I don't know how the water got into it, but it clearly has water in it. I have seen some articles on the web about getting the water out, but nothing looks too promising to me. Do any of you have any suggestions about mitigating the issue?

We have had sub-zero weather, and it is likely to stay below freezing every night for several months yet. So any water that is not in suspension will freeze. That is likely to not be good for the equipment. I suspect that I have no option but to drain it out and replace it. Even that may be difficult as I don't know how get all the contaminated fluid out. Any suggestions on how to get all the contaminated fluid out?

Once I have replaced the hydraulic fluid, I want to avoid this in the future. Until my shop is built, and maybe after my SEE will have to be exposed to the elements. Do you have any suggestions on precautions I can take to keep the water out? I have no idea how it got in as I said. I live in a dry climate, but we get snow and rain occasionally.

 

[The FLU farm]

How did you determine that there's water in the system? And is it the front or the rear system?

 

[Mullaney]

My hydraulic fluid has water in it. I don't know how the water got into it, but it clearly has water in it. I have seen some articles on the web about getting the water out, but nothing looks too promising to me. Do any of you have any suggestions about mitigating the issue?

We have had sub-zero weather, and it is likely to stay below freezing every night for several months yet. So any water that is not in suspension will freeze. That is likely to not be good for the equipment. I suspect that I have no option but to drain it out and replace it. Even that may be difficult as I don't know how get all the contaminated fluid out. Any suggestions on how to get all the contaminated fluid out?

Once I have replaced the hydraulic fluid, I want to avoid this in the future. Until my shop is built, and maybe after my SEE will have to be exposed to the elements. Do you have any suggestions on precautions I can take to keep the water out? I have no idea how it got in as I said. I live in a dry climate, but we get snow and rain occasionally.

.
If it really is water, there aren't many ways that water can get into the system. Running and warm, the hydraulic oil will slowly change color to a milky white when mixed with water. Not like the milky pasty brown like a motor with a blown head gasket. Hydraulic contaminated with water is just plain milky white.

I have seen water splash up into the hydraulic tank through a breather. I have also seen a machine (Pengo Tensioner) that collected water because the fluid got incredibly hot (braking in a hydraulic bath) and hot oil into a cold condensing tank "made water". That was a known problem with that machine.

The crummy part is that you loose the lubricity of the oil when it is contaminated with water and eventually (in my opinion) you will burn up the hydraulic pump.

Since water floats on top of water, the pump is going to collect that water. When it freezes, you know what happens next and that will be expensive.

 

[The FLU farm]

Is it something like this that makes you think there's water in the tank?

One of mine has puked out about a gallon three times over the years, and I suspect that it's just aeration due to cold fluid since it has only happened when it's around -10 or less.
For whatever reason, that's the only one that does it, and they all have the same NAPA AW-32 in them, and it starts when raising the loader to drive off from where it's parked. Also, I do drive almost immediately after starting the engine.

 

[rtrask]

Is it something like this that makes you think there's water in the tank?

One of mine has puked out about a gallon three times over the years, and I suspect that it's just aeration due to cold fluid since it has only happened when it's around -10 or less.
For whatever reason, that's the only one that does it, and they all have the same NAPA AW-32 in them, and it starts when raising the loader to drive off from where it's parked. Also, I do drive almost immediately after starting the engine.View attachment 855368

That looks similar to what I have, maybe it is just air. It has gotten down to -10, but it was looking white like that before it got that cold. I noticed that it was white like that after the firs winter it spent out here. Shouldn't it go back to looking like normal AW-32 after it sits for a extended period?

How can I prove to myself that it does not have water in the hydraulic fluid. I am afraid of the consequences if I just say well that must be it, but I am wrong.

 

[rtrask]

.
If it really is water, there aren't many ways that water can get into the system. Running and warm, the hydraulic oil will slowly change color to a milky white when mixed with water. Not like the milky pasty brown like a motor with a blown head gasket. Hydraulic contaminated with water is just plain milky white.

I have seen water splash up into the hydraulic tank through a breather. I have also seen a machine (Pengo Tensioner) that collected water because the fluid got incredibly hot (braking in a hydraulic bath) and hot oil into a cold condensing tank "made water". That was a known problem with that machine.

The crummy part is that you loose the lubricity of the oil when it is contaminated with water and eventually (in my opinion) you will burn up the hydraulic pump.

Since water floats on top of water, the pump is going to collect that water. When it freezes, you know what happens next and that will be expensive.

That is exactly my fear. It is a milky white. I will take a picture tomorrow, but it looks similar to what FLU farm posted.

I have pulled the rod on the dipper cylinder. and I am replacing the seals right now. I suppose that since it has been sitting for a while if I warm up the tank somehow with out circulating the oil so that it is liquid water not ice and pull the plug if I get water coming out initially I will have my answer. if it is just the milky white oil and I catch it in a 5 gallon bucket and let it sit in the cold if there is any ice in the bottom of the bucket then I will know then too. If the second test has no ice, then either the water is in suspension, or it is just air.

 

[glcaines]

You can try something called the crackle test to determine if there is water in the oil.
Monitor Water-In-Oil with the Visual Crackle Test (machinerylubrication.com)

You can also take a sample to a lab and they can measure the water content with Karl Fischer reagent titration, but this will have some cost. You can do the crackle test for free and it is very simple. Also, water in hydraulic fluid can cause cavitation, so if you have air entrained in the hydraulic fluid, the root cause could be water contamination.

 

[The FLU farm]

Also, water in hydraulic fluid can cause cavitation, so if you have air entrained in the hydraulic fluid, the root cause could be water contamination.

Considering that the fuel tank was literally full of water when I got that one, maybe I shouldn't be surprised if there's some in the front hydraulics, too.
Then again, it got new hydraulic fluids asap, so who knows? I can live with it puking once per year or thereabouts.

 

[Mullaney]

That looks similar to what I have, maybe it is just air. It has gotten down to -10, but it was looking white like that before it got that cold. I noticed that it was white like that after the firs winter it spent out here. Shouldn't it go back to looking like normal AW-32 after it sits for a extended period?

How can I prove to myself that it does not have water in the hydraulic fluid. I am afraid of the consequences if I just say well that must be it, but I am wrong.

.
I don't think it will separate back to clear oil and clear water. My opinion only, but in the 300 gallon tank on the Pengo that I mentioned before, draining that tank would get several gallons of plain water, then lots of milky white AW32 hydraulic fluid all the way to the last drop as it drained.

 

[rtrask]

You can try something called the crackle test to determine if there is water in the oil.
Monitor Water-In-Oil with the Visual Crackle Test (machinerylubrication.com)

You can also take a sample to a lab and they can measure the water content with Karl Fischer reagent titration, but this will have some cost. You can do the crackle test for free and it is very simple. Also, water in hydraulic fluid can cause cavitation, so if you have air entrained in the hydraulic fluid, the root cause could be water contamination.

Thanks the crackle test looks like a good way to figure out if it is water or not, and it makes sense now that I think about it.