FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[glcaines]

Better if the fluid is warm each time you drain as well.

 

[rtrask]

There are 2 per tank in inline strainer going to the pump, and a filter on the return line. I did not replace any of the filters when first put AW32 in the tanks. I was not worried about flushing it at that time. So I just drained the tanks, put the plug back in, and filled it up. Since I am trying to flush the system this time, prior to my first post, I had already ordered all 4 filters. As FLU says, the 2 inline ones that go to the pumps are labeled as strainers. They are not that expensive ~ $35 on Amazon. The main filter for the big tank is $70. After 30 years or so, it is probably time to change the filters out anyway.

 

[rtrask]

Better if the fluid is warm each time you drain as well.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but I am less certain of how to do that. The ambient air temp is pretty low around here this time of year. I have been thinking about wrapping the tank with insulation and putting a heat lamp on it. Another option might be some kind of immersion heater.

 

[rtrask]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but I am less certain of how to do that. The ambient air temp is pretty low around here this time of year. I have been thinking about wrapping the tank with insulation and putting a heat lamp on it. Another option might be some kind of immersion heater.

Some times I am amazed at my own stupidity. Of course the way to warm it up is to work it. .. Which is what I did. Also I wanted to not believe that I did it to myself, which I did. Most if not all of the water came from a 55 gallon drum that had set out in the rain and snow for multiple years. Even though I thought it was properly sealed water got past the seals. So make sure of what you are pouring in the tank.

I drained the system and let it set. Then I got a 55 drum of AW32 from the local COOP. I was following these instructions here similar to these and the double flush method here ..... and what was suggested by FLU Farm and others on this site.

So if I already have the answer why do I keep looking? The problem with this approach is that even after a drain and flush, there will still be water in the system. The amount depends on how much oil / water mix is in the cylinders. With the two boom cylinders, the dipper cylinder, the bucket the two stabilizers, the left and right rotation cylinders the cylinder to fold the backhoe for travel, and the cylinders to lock the backhoe into a working position. I have no idea how much fluid is in all those cylinders but it must be a significant amount.

For simple math let's say 3.5 gallons remains in the system when the tank is empty. If I put in 7 gallons of new fluid and mix the 3.5 gallons of oil / water with that 7 gallons, then drain out 7 gallons the the oil / water mix remaining in the system should have only 1/3 of the water that was in it before the flush. (total volume is now 3 times what was in system, drain out 2/3 of the oil / water mix , and 1/3 remains) . Repeating the procedure will reduce the water to 1/9 of the original. No matter how many times I repeat the flush some amount of water will remain. When I fill the tank, to 21 gallons (full capacity, or 3 times the amount used to flush it) the amount of remaining water will be about 1/7 the contamination level of what was in the system when I refilled it. (6 x 3.5 = 21 + 3.5 mix is 7 times drained tank volume) These numbers are just hypothetical, If drained tank system capacity is lower contamination level will go down quicker, if drained tank system capacity is higher contamination level will go down slower. If anyone knows what drained tank system capacity is I would be curious but ultimately, that is not critical to know, because what is important what the contamination level is when I refill the tank to capacity.

Sorry for the long post. My question is given that following this procedure will never get rid of all the water, What is an acceptable contamination level? A nebulous question I realize, but I am interested in what y'all think. Here is a link to figure it out, but I am not confident in my answers to the question. the link to cleanliness calculator

I have done 2 flushes already. My plan is to repeat the flush at least 1 more time and then do a crackle test to estimate the contamination level of what comes out with the last flush.

 

[glcaines]

I had to use my FLU419 twice over the past few days because we were snowed in due to the winter storm. My FLU and my M35A3 were the only vehicles I could get out with because of the snow and ice and the fact that our house is located on a steep hill. I had to start the FLU at 16 deg F. I was amazed at how easy it started. Of course, the FLU automatically injects ether when the temp is low. The engine turned over probably two revolutions and fired right up, along with the smell of ether. I'm really happy with my FLU - it runs perfectly and everything works great. We also lost power and we powered the house with my MEP003A generator.

 

[rtrask]

I had to use my FLU419 twice over the past few days because we were snowed in due to the winter storm. My FLU and my M35A3 were the only vehicles I could get out with because of the snow and ice and the fact that our house is located on a steep hill. I had to start the FLU at 16 deg F. I was amazed at how easy it started. Of course, the FLU automatically injects ether when the temp is low. The engine turned over probably two revolutions and fired right up, along with the smell of ether. I'm really happy with my FLU - it runs perfectly and everything works great. We also lost power and we powered the house with my MEP003A generator.

My ether injection pump was toast when I got my FLU. I bought replacement parts and got a lot of it back together, but it is not functional. I really wish it were in the climate I live in now. I think the problems are just electrical but that is pretty daunting still. I hope to get it functional it is on my YATTF list.

I have heard of guys in Alaska who brag on how well they start in subzero weather. Mine has never failed to start with a light blast of ether, but I hate to use it. I have an MEP803A generator which is also on my YATTF. After I get my house built, and garage I will have to start knocking things off the list.

 

[The FLU farm]

I have heard of guys in Alaska who brag on how well they start in subzero weather. Mine has never failed to start with a light blast of ether, but I hate to use it.

Mine starts in subzero weather all the time, without using the built in ether setup. But one of them injects some ether at every startup all by itself, which I don't mind since I like the smell.

Anyway, since the factory included ether injection, it can't be all bad to use starting fluid. I'm still more surprised about the recommendation to put gasoline in the tank.

 

[Mullaney]

Mine starts in subzero weather all the time, without using the built in ether setup. But one of them injects some ether at every startup all by itself, which I don't mind since I like the smell.

Anyway, since the factory included ether injection, it can't be all bad to use starting fluid. I'm still more surprised about the recommendation to put gasoline in the tank.

.
Couple of fallons of gas in the diesel tank is good to help clean the injectors every now and again. Couple of older than me guys always claimed it needed to be done regular.

Me personally -I don't think I would want to have Gas AND Ether in a diesel startup though...

 

[glcaines]

Gasoline has almost no lubrication attributes. I would be very concerned that adding gasoline to diesel fuel would damage the injection pump. I would stick with approved additives to clean the injectors. When I was in the Army, many of our trucks had multifuel engines and some were still gassers. We were forbidden to add mogas to any multifuel engines unless it was an absolute emergency situation, because of potential damage to the injection pumps.

 

[The FLU farm]

Gasoline has almost no lubrication attributes. I would be very concerned that adding gasoline to diesel fuel would damage the injection pump. I would stick with approved additives to clean the injectors.

Well, when it's recommeded in the manual (for winter use), it could be considered approved, I'd think.

 

[glcaines]

Well, when it's recommeded in the manual (for winter use), it could be considered approved, I'd think.

I've never seen it in the FLU419 manual to add gasoline to diesel fuel for winter. I've only seen where it says to use winter diesel vs summer diesel for winter conditions. I have seen where it was authorized to add a small amount of kerosene to summer diesel fuel for use in winter conditions to prevent gelling of the diesel fuel, but this was not for the FLU419 it was for some other industrial diesel engines. I've also heard that winter diesel has a small amount of kerosene added to diesel fuel for winterization, but I don't know that as fact, only what I've heard.

 

[The FLU farm]

It's been discussed in this very thread. But unfortunately I don't remember in what literature the gas was mentioned.

And yes, diesel #1 is what the winter fuel is referred to as. If you lived in a colder climate you'd get #1 in the winter whether you want it or not.

 

[glcaines]

I'm in Georgia, but in the mountains. We get winter diesel here. The issue the fuel companies have, even in warm weather areas in the winter, is that trucks and cars can take on diesel fuel in warmer areas and then drive up into colder areas and have a problem.

Changing the subject, piston aircraft flying into extremely cold or arctic conditions often inject avgas into the motor oil before shutting down to facilitate easier starting later. The gasoline evaporates as the engine warms up and the oil viscosity increases again. I've also heard of people adding kerosene to crankcase oil in trucks and cars in the winter for the same purpose back decades ago. Multi-viscosity oils have mostly negated that issue for vehicles today.

 

[The FLU farm]

I'm in Georgia, but in the mountains. We get winter diesel here. The issue the fuel companies have, even in warm weather areas in the winter, is that trucks and cars can take on diesel fuel in warmer areas and then drive up into colder areas and have a problem.

For the FLUs it's not an issue. I have to put anti gel in the storage tanks when the fuel is delivered, since the supply generally lasts me a couple of years.

For me, the odd one is the Ram 3500. It's driven so seldom that I often end up driving on winter fuel in the summer, and vice versa.

 

[rtrask]

.
Couple of fallons of gas in the diesel tank is good to help clean the injectors every now and again. Couple of older than me guys always claimed it needed to be done regular.

Me personally -I don't think I would want to have Gas AND Ether in a diesel startup though...

I put some anti-gel in the tank about the time it got real cold, and it started smoking pretty bad. Maybe the gas trick is not a bad idea. I assume it should be 2 gallons on a full tank. I will probably wait until next month after it starts warming up though.

 

[The FLU farm]

It wasn't the anti gel that made it smoke. They can put out quite a bit until warmed up, even when it's only zero degrees.
Lower temps yet results in even more smoke.

 

[rtrask]

I put some anti-gel in the tank about the time it got real cold, and it started smoking pretty bad. Maybe the gas trick is not a bad idea. I assume it should be 2 gallons on a full tank. I will probably wait until next month after it starts warming up though.

Well after reading the rest of the comments, maybe I will just add OTC injector cleaner. I added the anti-gel to my RAM 3500 too and it is smoking really bad. A friend thinks that I may have a bad injector on it. I drove it about 45 miles to get the drum of AW32, and it seemed to stop smoking. I think I will skip the anti-gel unless it gets really cold. it gets down to the low teens most every night and I may be singing a different tune if it gets really cold,

 

[The FLU farm]

If it's a Ram, it must be a 2010 or newer. Those should not smoke, no matter what (if it's stock).
I have disconnected that potentially troublesome grid heater on my '17, and it still doesn't smoke much (a little bit, maybe for two minutes) at -10 or less.

How much, and what kind of anti gel are you using?

 

[rtrask]

It wasn't the anti gel that made it smoke. They can put out quite a bit until warmed up, even when it's only zero degrees.
Lower temps yet results in even more smoke.

Well maybe it is just because it got cold at the time that I added the anti-gel, but since both the truck and the FLU started smoking so bad it seemed to be connected.

I don't think I added more than the recommended amount, but I got a full sized jug. I figured it as 4 oz per 30 gallons.

FLU farm you were the one that told me the Diesel 911 was bad for the injectors. After I bought the anti-gel I realized it was the same producer as Diesel 911. That is part of the reason I connected anti-gel being bad for the injectors.

 

[rtrask]

If it's a Ram, it must be a 2010 or newer. Those should not smoke, no matter what (if it's stock).
I have disconnected that potentially troublesome grid heater on my '17, and it still doesn't smoke much (a little bit, maybe for two minutes) at -10 or less.

How much, and what kind of anti gel are you using?

My Dodge RAM 3500 is a 2005 with a 6 speed manual transmission. I intentionally looked for one that was pre Obama era regulations.