Main breaker CB1 on 002a/003a wiring & diagram.

[metalworker393]

Okay, so im attempting to change my 003a machine over to an sx460 avr. I was in the garage today and i need a little help understanding the connections on the back of CB1. I am trying to use the machine in 240v 1 phase configuration, and want to eliminate the 1 lug on the connection box.
I am having a hard time understanding what are the correct wires i will need for a 240v configuration on the breaker. If I am correct, L2 is used when the voltage selector switch is turned for 3 phase. The switch has been removed from my connection box. As well as ct1/cvt1, lineer reactor and A4 board. I am trying to somewhat copy what craig tull did and also what rustystud did.
The diagram in the TM isnt that clear and im not that good at understanding electrical schematics either. as I am doing this mod, L1 & L3 are used for 240 1 ph . L2 is used for the 3 ph connection. if I do this correctly, I want to remove L2 wire from CB1 to the connection bolt. then move L3 wire to L2 connection bolt. Then remove L3 connection bolt . when you flip the cover up all youll have is L1, L2, and L0
what do all of those 16ga wires do ? can somebody explain that to me? Thanks, metalworker393

 

[Chainbreaker]

The diagram in the TM isnt that clear and im not that good at understanding electrical schematics either.

I don't know if this helps but the attached "Extracted Wire Diagrams" PDF schematic" attached below might be more legible and you can zoom up on it to enlarge as needed.

On PDF pg 11 (Figure 6-6) printed pg 6-14.1 is the AC Reconnection Box wiring diagram. S6 = the AC Reconnection Switch

There is a switch table at bottom of schematic PDF pg 3 for S6 switch showing what wires are connected to switch terminals for Single Phase.

Wish I could assist more but since I don't have the SX460 module to wrap my head around it's not something I'm familiar in hooking up.

 

[metalworker393]

I don't know if this helps but the attached "Extracted Wire Diagrams" PDF schematic" attached below might be more legible and you can zoom up on it to enlarge as needed.

On PDF pg 11 (Figure 6-6) printed pg 6-14.1 is the AC Reconnection Box wiring diagram. S6 = the AC Reconnection Switch

There is a switch table at bottom of schematic PDF pg 3 for S6 switch showing what wires are connected to switch terminals for Single Phase.

Wish I could assist more but since I don't have the SX460 module to wrap my head around it's not something I'm familiar in hooking up.

Thank you chainbreaker, this will help me remove wiring in the connection box no longer needed. I have removed several items, if the wire went from CB1 to either S6 or A4 for example that wire started and ended in the in the connection box and is no longer of any use. I can remove obsolete wiring and clean up the clutter.
I will attach my avr picture and wring instructions shortly. Thank you !

 

[Scoobyshep]

The 16 awg wires I believe are the trip wires. IIRC they take a signal from the CTs and trip the breaker

 

[Ray70]

You can find a lot of info on the main breaker here:

MEP-002A and -003A main breaker

Good to know Munchies. Keep in mind, my work or investigation is incomplete. The others here are saying it won't work with theirs. I believe them, but wish I could find or someone could identify the specific solution to the problem, where we only have the problem cited, thus far, in this thread...

www.steelsoldiers.com

But post #70 specifically talks about the additional 6 control wires you are talking about.

 

[metalworker393]

Thank you chainbreaker, this will help me remove wiring in the connection box no longer needed. I have removed several items, if the wire went from CB1 to either S6 or A4 for example that wire started and ended in the in the connection box and is no longer of any use. I can remove obsolete wiring and clean up the clutter.
I will attach my avr picture and wring instructions shortly. Thank you !

heres the info I have on the avr

 

[Chainbreaker]

I don't know if this helps but here is a diagram of how one SS member was using the SX460 for a MEP016 conversion. Though, I believe he was configuring for 110 VAC only. Anyway, this diagram might be of some help:

 

[metalworker393]

The 16 awg wires I believe are the trip wires. IIRC they take a signal from the CTs and trip the breaker

not to prove how much I dont know, but I need those 6 wires to trip the breaker when overloading it?

 

[Scoobyshep]

not to prove how much I dont know, but I need those 6 wires to trip the breaker when overloading it?

I cant claim expertise on this component, but reading other posts it appears that way.




Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Chainbreaker]

Metalworker have you read this thread? It's not a simple straight forward hook-up for the MEP-002/-003's as far as I can tell. If it is...no one has clearly documented their method to get it right or I can't find it here on SS. The desire to gut all the unnecessary failure prone components to increase reliability for dedicated 120/240 use is certainly a very worthy goal!

That's why I made mention @kloppk that there is a decent market for a fully documented/tested reliable AVR conversion kit to take the guess work out for those that don't have the expertise & equipment to work out the kinks and fully test it without burning up AVR's in order to get it right the first time.

Before I would ever make this AVR conversion, I need to have confidence it is going to be rock solid conversion for mission critical home power outage backup purposes. I would pay a premium, over the typical AVR parts pricing to have a fully tested complete install kit with easy-to-follow documentation.

 

[kloppk]

...That's why I made mention @kloppk that there is a decent market for a fully documented/tested reliable AVR conversion kit to take the guess work out...

I've been looking around to see if I can acquire or get access to an 002/003 for such an undertaking. No luck yet.

 

[Ray70]

Kurt, what is it that you need? A currently functional 002 or 003? if so I can probably provide you with something. I have a few of them here.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Just throwing this idea out there... What about starting a new thread with a title something like: "MEP-002a/003a SX460 Conversion Project". The first post could be an outline of the scope of the project with the goal of developing a fully tested DIY conversion kit. You could see if anyone responds nearby your location that has a running loaner/donor -002a/-003a genset. You might be able to work a deal of sorts to be return unit with a tested installed AVR conversion at just parts cost or whatever deal you make with the loaner person.

Also post something in the "Parts Wanted" classifieds to cover all the bases. Perhaps someone who has a MEP-002a/-003a unit with known bad AC Reconnection box wants to sell the non-working genset at a discounted price and then you could sell it at a profit to recoup your initial investment.

Anyway, just an idea...

PS: To the OP, not trying to step on your efforts or thread. Just trying to get help

Edit: Just saw Ray70's post. He may have a solution!

 

[kloppk]

Kurt, what is it that you need? A currently functional 002 or 003? if so I can probably provide you with something. I have a few of them here.

PM inbound

 

[metalworker393]

Metalworker have you read this thread? It's not a simple straight forward hook-up for the MEP-002/-003's as far as I can tell. If it is...no one has clearly documented their method to get it right or I can't find it here on SS. The desire to gut all the unnecessary failure prone components to increase reliability for dedicated 120/240 use is certainly a very worthy goal!

That's why I made mention @kloppk that there is a decent market for a fully documented/tested reliable AVR conversion kit to take the guess work out for those that don't have the expertise & equipment to work out the kinks and fully test it without burning up AVR's in order to get it right the first time.

Before I would ever make this AVR conversion, I need to have confidence it is going to be rock solid conversion for mission critical home power outage backup purposes. I would pay a premium, over the typical AVR parts pricing to have a fully tested complete install kit with easy-to-follow documentation.

good day chainbreaker how are you. Yes I am trying to do this so I can figure out , or at least try to figure out how to make the machine more reliable. As these machines age out parts will become harder and more expensive to replace. I did opt on this mod to buy an inexpensive avr to keep cost down while trying to do a mod that is "uncertain it will work" I am no electrician, definitely not an electronics person either.
I have the 003a machine that wasnt making power. The engine ran great so I have that already. If this doesnt work and I cant get it to make power then I will buy a commercial 240v generator end . I have the dimensions figured out on a plate that will bolt to the flywheel, with a 1.250" #4 SAE bell housing spacer. The flywheel adapter plate will be machined to a SAE #7.5 bolt pattern at the correct thickness . Thus turning the 003a machine into a standard #4 bell x #7.5 flywheel.
I am guessing the designers made the flywheel bolt pattern on the flywheel the way they did so it could be repaired in the field with the Armys mobile machine shop less difficult. It is a heck of alot easier to "dial out" the holes in the flywheel on a milling machine when they are arranged in a pattern simple left to right and in and out . ( x axis and y axis) If a soldier had to do the trigonometry to dial out the hole pattern he may not be able to do it.
I was an MR in the Navy and while in A school in San Diego alot of my classmates really struggled with calculating bolt circles. the advantage I had was I graduated from the vocational HS from the Machine Shop trade before enlisting. I am sure the designers took this into account.

 

[Chainbreaker]

The Milspec gen hds in the -002a/-003a are very robust & reliable. It's rare that they fail unless severely abused. The "rotating diodes" do sometimes fail and are fairly easily & cheaply replaced. Several threads on how to do that here on SS if that were to be the case.

BTW, how many hours on your MEP-003a hobbs meter & what is the mfg date on the MFG placard? How did you obtain this unit... auction or private party & any history of it working that you know about?

In some ways you might have jumped the gun a bit by first trying to replace the AC reconnection box with the SX460 in a unit that you are not sure will produce power out of the gen hd. I don't know your prior troubleshooting efforts on getting your unit to produce AC output but there are several diagnostic tests that could have been performed to isolate the problem (AC Reconnection Switch, Transformers, Reactor, Rotating Diodes etc.).

Once you get the SX460 installed & if you don't get AC output where do you start to troubleshoot? Is it the SX460 hookup configuration or the Gen Head?

Sure, you could adapt a commercial 240V gen head but unless your OEM gen head is toast it would be extra $, time and perhaps less long-term reliability depending on the commercial gen hd you select.

I wish you the best of luck on this endeavor regardless of which route you end up going.

 

[Guyfang]

I am guessing the designers made the flywheel bolt pattern on the flywheel the way they did so it could be repaired in the field with the Armys mobile machine shop less difficult. It is a heck of alot easier to "dial out" the holes in the flywheel on a milling machine when they are arranged in a pattern simple left to right and in and out . ( x axis and y axis) If a soldier had to do the trigonometry to dial out the hole pattern he may not be able to do it.
I was an MR in the Navy and while in A school in San Diego alot of my classmates really struggled with calculating bolt circles. the advantage I had was I graduated from the vocational HS from the Machine Shop trade before enlisting. I am sure the designers took this into account.

Would have never happened in the Army.
1. Remove damaged flywheel.
2. Toss damaged flywheel in scrap metal bin.
3. Install new flywheel.

 

[metalworker393]

The Milspec gen hds in the -002a/-003a are very robust & reliable. It's rare that they fail unless severely abused. The "rotating diodes" do sometimes fail and are fairly easily & cheaply replaced. Several threads on how to do that here on SS if that were to be the case.

BTW, how many hours on your MEP-003a hobbs meter & what is the mfg date on the MFG placard? How did you obtain this unit... auction or private party & any history of it working that you know about?

In some ways you might have jumped the gun a bit by first trying to replace the AC reconnection box with the SX460 in a unit that you are not sure will produce power out of the gen hd. I don't know your prior troubleshooting efforts on getting your unit to produce AC output but there are several diagnostic tests that could have been performed to isolate the problem (AC Reconnection Switch, Transformers, Reactor, Rotating Diodes etc.).

Once you get the SX460 installed & if you don't get AC output where do you start to troubleshoot? Is it the SX460 hookup configuration or the Gen Head?

Sure, you could adapt a commercial 240V gen head but unless your OEM gen head is toast it would be extra $, time and perhaps less long-term reliability depending on the commercial gen hd you select.

I wish you the best of luck on this endeavor regardless of which route you end up going.

good day chainbreaker how are you. well for starters my troubleshooting electric isnt the greatest. I bought the machine off of Government liquidation years ago and it was sitting under the deck at my previous home. ( im 6' tall and there was room above me ) This home has well water as to my previous home was city water. So i may need a larger generator during an outage. I believe the hobbs is showing around 1300 hours. not sure about the date. I decided to go this route because I am not an electrician and there was not anybody near me that knows anything about these machines . I contacted a generator repair shop and they wouldnt help me out either.
Best I can do is try, Im pretty much on my own . This to me is the least expensive way to get this machine making power again . My efforts at trying to find the problem failed . $200 in parts (somewhat less at the moment) i will give it shot. If it doesnt work then Ill proceed with a different route. The engine runs pretty darn good, I dont want to part it out.